New source for Master Calibration tapes; ATR Service Inc.

[Mike Lavigne]

below is information i thought would be helpful. these calibration tapes are not copies of copies, they are produced in house with the proper instruments and references.

MASTER CALIBRATION TAPES

ATR Service introducing our groundbreaking product, where the most challenging aspect lies in measuring the variables of magnetic fields.

We have developed an original methodology based on theories of measuring variable magnetic flux on carriers. Our approach is grounded in fundamental principles of theoretical data and analyses presented in articles, including contributions from Jay McKnight, who has significantly advanced the application of this methodology.

Utilizing our proprietary measuring instruments, developed based on the methodology at AMPEX, alongside cutting-edge measurement devices such as those from Audio Precision—devices that were merely dreams for AMPEX back in the 1960s—we ensure the utmost precision.

The control of theoretical calculations and practical measurements is facilitated by modern software that models process within electronic circuits. To ensure recording and quality control, we employ specialized magnetic mono heads manufactured by FluxMagnetics.

All these efforts culminate in achieving maximum accuracy of magnetic flux (including flux level, azimuth, and equalization) recorded onto magnetic tape, fully compliant with the requirements of the international standard IEC 94

WE HAVE STARTED PRODUCTION OF 1/4" CALBRATION TAPES AND WORKING ON FUTURE PRODUCTION OF 1/2" TAPES WITHIN FEW WEEKS.

OREDERS ONLINE OPTION COMING SOON. PLEASE CONTACT US FOR INQUIRIES.

Andrey Kosobutsky

ATR Service, Inc.

717.852.7700

SEATTLE, WA

http://www.atrservice.com

 

[Mcsnare]

I've always thought the lack of playback cal tones on most tapes owned by audiophiles is quite unprofessional. Who are the companies that sell R2R tapes with calibration tones included?

 

[Foxbat]

How many audiophiles would know what to do with those tones?

That is the question Number 1.

And the question Number 2 is what good are those tones if the tape then exceeds the max level by a factor of N?

In those cases the tones are just something to annoy the customer.

You can put the azimuth adjustment tones on tape... how many audiophiles have scopes and even screwdrivers, plus clear understanding of what to do?

I have scopes and screwdrivers, and I have the tones on several of my tapes. Do you think I ever used them?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

How many audiophiles would know what to do with those tones?

That is the question Number 1.

And the question Number 2 is what good are those tones if the tape then exceeds the max level by a factor of N?

In those cases the tones are just something to annoy the customer.

You can put the azimuth adjustment tones on tape... how many audiophiles have scopes and even screwdrivers, plus clear understanding of what to do?

I have scopes and screwdrivers, and I have the tones on several of my tapes. Do you think I ever used them?

i think the main benefit of proper calibration tapes is making proper dubs, or mixing; whether by studios or hobbyists. agree that tones for playback is more hit and miss as many hobbyists are not qualified or equipped to use them.

however; if you have a source you are paying large dollars for tapes, and they are not rigorous in their dubbing process, and making sure their machines are optimized, or are using incorrect calibration tapes to do optimal dubs, then we are all less well served. and if you are setting up a dubbing process, and cannot acquire accurate calibration tapes, that is a problem. it is a foundational piece of the puzzle. customers expect to get what they are told they are getting.

and serious hobbyists do need to make sure their machines are set up properly to begin with. which requires an accurate calibration tape. they don't need to do it or know how....but someone does. otherwise they are not getting their money's worth from their gear.

no different from cartridge set up or phono stage adjustment. serious vinyl lovers would not just mount the cartridge and hope it's right. there is a proper process.

i know i've purchased some 'doggy' tapes from high quality sources at full retail, and of course, who knows why? my guess is this is one reason why that could happen. were the master machine and dubbing machine properly calibrated? it takes a proper calibration tape that will jive with how my deck is set up. so all of us being on the same page matters.

tape can be great, or somewhat ordinary too. precision matters.

 

[dminches]

Calibration tapes are equally important for playback calibration, whether it be via internal electronics or outboard electronics.

 

[jazzfun]

For a novice, simplicity and convenience are the most important thing. MARA's Cal tapes seem to be relatively easy to use when paired with its APP.

 

[stellavox]

I've always thought the lack of playback cal tones on most tapes owned by audiophiles is quite unprofessional. Who are the companies that sell R2R tapes with calibration tones included?

Way back when I think I convinced Doc B to put a 1Khz tone at the beginning of his Tape Project tapes. Believe they are on all of them - at what level tho? - never checked

 

[Atmasphere]

below is information i thought would be helpful. these calibration tapes are not copies of copies, they are produced in house with the proper instruments and references.

MASTER CALIBRATION TAPES

ATR Service introducing our groundbreaking product, where the most challenging aspect lies in measuring the variables of magnetic fields.

We have developed an original methodology based on theories of measuring variable magnetic flux on carriers. Our approach is grounded in fundamental principles of theoretical data and analyses presented in articles, including contributions from Jay McKnight, who has significantly advanced the application of this methodology.

Utilizing our proprietary measuring instruments, developed based on the methodology at AMPEX, alongside cutting-edge measurement devices such as those from Audio Precision—devices that were merely dreams for AMPEX back in the 1960s—we ensure the utmost precision.

The control of theoretical calculations and practical measurements is facilitated by modern software that models process within electronic circuits. To ensure recording and quality control, we employ specialized magnetic mono heads manufactured by FluxMagnetics.

All these efforts culminate in achieving maximum accuracy of magnetic flux (including flux level, azimuth, and equalization) recorded onto magnetic tape, fully compliant with the requirements of the international standard IEC 94

WE HAVE STARTED PRODUCTION OF 1/4" CALBRATION TAPES AND WORKING ON FUTURE PRODUCTION OF 1/2" TAPES WITHIN FEW WEEKS.

OREDERS ONLINE OPTION COMING SOON. PLEASE CONTACT US FOR INQUIRIES.

Andrey Kosobutsky

ATR Service, Inc.

717.852.7700

SEATTLE, WA

http://www.atrservice.com

Hm.

They don't appear associated with ATR Magnetics, the only US supplier of recording tape. If I had to guess, this would seem to cause some confusion in the marketplace. I know Betty, the owner of ATR, and I assumed as soon as I saw this thread that ATR was associated with ATR Service (since calibration tapes; something that ATR could be producing with their tapes; IMO a good idea). But no mention of ATR on the ATR Service website... Sheesh! I think it would be a very good idea for ATR Service to change their name.

I spoke to Betty at AXPONA at her booth. So ATR Magnetics is not invisible to high end audio.

 

[Foxbat]

Way back when I think I convinced Doc B to put a 1Khz tone at the beginning of his Tape Project tapes. Believe they are on all of them - at what level tho? - never checked

Anyone can put a tone on their tape, but then the question becomes: "Now what?" At least the usual studio 3 tones let you check your EQ and azimuth. I once had a tape that sounded unquestionably overloaded, but its tone was just fine, thank you!

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Hm.

They don't appear associated with ATR Magnetics, the only US supplier of recording tape. If I had to guess, this would seem to cause some confusion in the marketplace. I know Betty, the owner of ATR, and I assumed as soon as I saw this thread that ATR was associated with ATR Service (since calibration tapes; something that ATR could be producing with their tapes; IMO a good idea). But no mention of ATR on the ATR Service website... Sheesh! I think it would be a very good idea for ATR Service to change their name.

Ralph,

Andrey purchased ATR Service Inc from Betty last year. (Betty retained ATR Magnetics) i cannot say what business connection they still might have, i only know they they are aligned on the plan going forward. and know that one reason that it happened was that Betty viewed Andrey as having the skills to carry on the innovative work of Mike Spitz. if you have reservations please check directly with Betty.

does Betty (or ATR Magnetics) have the skills or will to create a process for making calibration tapes properly? ATR Service Inc never did that work previous to Andrey's acquisition.

ATR Service Inc's primary work is servicing the ATR decks used world wide by studio's, which has been ongoing under Andrey since last year.

 

[Atmasphere]

Ralph,

Andrey purchased ATR Service Inc from Betty last year. (Betty retained ATR Magnetics) i cannot say what business connection they still might have, i only know they they are aligned on the plan going forward. and know that one reason that it happened was that Betty viewed Andrey as having the skills to carry on the innovative work of Mike Spitz. if you have reservations please check directly with Betty.

does Betty (or ATR Magnetics) have the skills or will to create a process for making calibration tapes properly? ATR Service Inc never did that work previous to Andrey's acquisition.

ATR Service Inc's primary work is servicing the ATR decks used world wide by studio's, which has been ongoing under Andrey since last year.

I've not discussed it with her. I know her because she sent her turntable to us for repair (and we buy tape from them for use in our studio). It was nice meeting her at the show.

I was unaware of what you stated above so thank-you. I think it would be a good idea for the website to state that they use ATR Magnetics tapes, which I'm guessing they do. That's a tide that would raise all boats.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I've not discussed it with her. I know her because she sent her turntable to us for repair. It was nice meeting her at the show.

I was unaware of what you stated above so thank-you. I think it would be a good idea for the website to state that they use ATR Magnetics tapes, which I'm guessing they do. That's a tide that would raise all boats.

don't know about the ATR Magnetics tapes and that part of the relationship; however i know Andrey is using those tapes AFAIK, and has referred me to them should i need to buy tapes.

 

[Mcsnare]

Anyone can put a tone on their tape, but then the question becomes: "Now what?" At least the usual studio 3 tones let you check your EQ and azimuth. I once had a tape that sounded unquestionably overloaded, but its tone was just fine, thank you!

I have many years of experience with tape during my recording engineer days. Here's how it works:
1. The first thing is to use a cal tape to set an even level in both (or all) channels at 1K and 10K using the record head to play back (sync mode.)
2. Set azimuth on the record head while playing back a 10K tone, making the scope pattern display a straight verticle line. Alternately, put the monitors in mono with one channel phase reversed and tweak azimuth for the deepest audible null.
2. set azimuth for the playback head using the same method.
3. Set the playback level at 1K for desired level. If using a 185nW/m tape ( 0 db) then make all tones as close to 0 on the meters as possible. If elevated level is desired, turn down the play back level using the 1K tone to get to where you want to be. -3 db on the meters will eventually equate to +3db operating level once you raise the record level to show 0 on the playback head.
4. send tones starting with 1K to the machine at 0 VU on the meters while in input.
5. Go into record with the machine in repro. Adjust bias to recommended level using 10K. This is different for various tape formulations and speeds. ATR or Ampex 456 is about 1.7 db overbias at 30 ips, and about 3 db over at 15 ips. You adjust the bias to find the peak level then continue adding until the meters show a drop of the intended overbias.

 

[Mcsnare]

I have many years of experience with tape during my recording engineer days. Here's how it works:
1. The first thing is to use a cal tape to set an even level in both (or all) channels at 1K and 10K using the record head to play back (sync mode.)
2. Set azimuth on the record head while playing back a 10K tone, making the scope pattern display a straight verticle line. Alternately, put the monitors in mono with one channel phase reversed and tweak azimuth for the deepest audible null.
2. set azimuth for the playback head using the same method.
3. Set the playback level at 1K for desired level. If using a 185nW/m tape ( 0 db) then make all tones as close to 0 on the meters as possible. If elevated level is desired, turn down the play back level using the 1K tone to get to where you want to be. -3 db on the meters will eventually equate to +3db operating level once you raise the record level to show 0 on the playback head.
4. send tones starting with 1K to the machine at 0 VU on the meters while in input.
5. Go into record with the machine in repro. Adjust bias to recommended level using 10K. This is different for various tape formulations and speeds. ATR or Ampex 456 is about 1.7 db overbias at 30 ips, and about 3 db over at 15 ips. You adjust the bias to find the peak level then continue adding until the meters show a drop of the intended overbias.

6. Now you're ready to set record level by tweaking gain and eq on the record cards while looking at the meters in playback.

The prime reason to include at least 1K, 10K, and 100hz tones on tapes intended just for playback is to set azimuch and playback level and eq to precisely match the machine the tape was recorded on. Having a separate cal tape does not guarantee a mirror playback on the record machine. Small amounts of headwear and azimuth differences on the record machine should be incorporated into the playback machine, or it's like throwing a $10K cartridge on a turntable without anything more basic than setting the tracking force.

 

[Foxbat]

That works in a studio, for example, while making a copy of a master, but not in the customer's systems.

The best a customer can do is set his machine to some calibration tape.

 

[Atmasphere]

I have many years of experience with tape during my recording engineer days. Here's how it works:
1. The first thing is to use a cal tape to set an even level in both (or all) channels at 1K and 10K using the record head to play back (sync mode.)
2. Set azimuth on the record head while playing back a 10K tone, making the scope pattern display a straight verticle line. Alternately, put the monitors in mono with one channel phase reversed and tweak azimuth for the deepest audible null.
2. set azimuth for the playback head using the same method.
3. Set the playback level at 1K for desired level. If using a 185nW/m tape ( 0 db) then make all tones as close to 0 on the meters as possible. If elevated level is desired, turn down the play back level using the 1K tone to get to where you want to be. -3 db on the meters will eventually equate to +3db operating level once you raise the record level to show 0 on the playback head.
4. send tones starting with 1K to the machine at 0 VU on the meters while in input.
5. Go into record with the machine in repro. Adjust bias to recommended level using 10K. This is different for various tape formulations and speeds. ATR or Ampex 456 is about 1.7 db overbias at 30 ips, and about 3 db over at 15 ips. You adjust the bias to find the peak level then continue adding until the meters show a drop of the intended overbias.

I prefer to set azimuth first. In that way I get the most accurate 10KHz response.
Step 5 is for pro machines where lowest distortion is preferred. If a consumer deck, usually you set bias for equal record levels at 1KHz and 10KHz.

That works in a studio, for example, while making a copy of a master, but not in the customer's systems.

The best a customer can do is set his machine to some calibration tape.

This works great for consumer systems. A lot of machines in high end audio systems are actually pro decks (like a Studer A80); whether dubbing a master or simply using the machine to record something the procedure outlined above should be used. Calibration tapes are like gold to anyone invested in tape and tape machines.

 

[Foxbat]

This works great for consumer systems. A lot of machines in high end audio systems are actually pro decks (like a Studer A80); whether dubbing a master or simply using the machine to record something the procedure outlined above should be used. Calibration tapes are like gold to anyone invested in tape and tape machines.

I was specifically talking about using the 100Hz, 1KHz and 10KHz tones on tape. Ask here how many would feel comfortable adjusting their azimuth for every tape they play and especially adjusting the EQ based on the test tones from the tape they are about to play. My guess is none.

 

[Atmasphere]

I was specifically talking about using the 100Hz, 1KHz and 10KHz tones on tape. Ask here how many would feel comfortable adjusting their azimuth for every tape they play and especially adjusting the EQ based on the test tones from the tape they are about to play. My guess is none.

Any pre-recorded tape is set to proper azimuth and the machine should be too. So that's something that would be set once and no worries unless the head has to be replaced.

 

[Foxbat]

There is always some tolerance and some error there, so in a studio it is set for every tape... or should be.

Actually, it is even worse than this... sometimes the azimuth is adjusted for every song on a master tape, as there are often variations. But that is just the azimuth... the other tones are there for EQ adjustment.

Like I said... no customer will do that, I never do that on the studio tapes with three tones that I have. The single 1KHz at 0dB really has no purpose.

 

[Atmasphere]

There is always some tolerance and some error there, so in a studio it is set for every tape... or should be.

Actually, it is even worse than this... sometimes the azimuth is adjusted for every song on a master tape, as there are often variations. But that is just the azimuth... the other tones are there for EQ adjustment.

Like I said... no customer will do that, I never do that on the studio tapes with three tones that I have. The single 1KHz at 0dB really has no purpose.

I've run a studio for the last 45 years. I've never heard of anything like this! Usually tape machine azimuth is quite steady and should not need constant tweaking as long as there isn't a problem with the capstan. Even cassette machines are very consistent with azimuth.