My 2 channel experiment

[LL21]

30lbs of copper cable...yikes! very interesting to note, particularly given how some of the latest grounding cables seem to look like power cables now.

 

[RogerD]

30lbs of copper cable...yikes! very interesting to note, particularly given how some of the latest grounding cables seem to look like power cables now.

Yes Lloyd seems like people are catching on...but the great equalizer need not be expensive or cumbersome.

 

[LL21]

Yes Lloyd seems like people are catching on...but the great equalizer need not be expensive or cumbersome.

knowledge = power.

 

[RogerD]

knowledge = power.

++1

 

[RogerD]

Well the system is still cycling after the last pair of cables were installed,but it is nearing completion. I recorded this Keith Jarrett piece from his Carnegie Hall concert today with about 1 hour warm up and the volume set @10'oclock. What makes this special just for me is it demonstrates how far my system has come in terms of clarity and being closer to the music. I must tell you that back in November before I started this new grounding experiment,the voices you hear in the beginning could hardly be understood. Nothing but extreme grounding has been done to the system. My main speakers are 8.5ft on centers and I'm running two pairs of psycho acoustic speakers the two large sub woofers are outboard of the mains and placed next to the 14ft apart walls. Again I used my iphone6

 

[Tango]

I recorded this Keith Jarrett piece from his Carnegie Hall concert today with about 1 hour warm up and the volume set @10'oclock.

Sir,

Is this on reel tape. Where can I find this on analog?

Kind regards,
Tang

 

[RogerD]

Sir,

Is this on reel tape. Where can I find this on analog?

Kind regards,
Tang

Hello Tang,
I believe this 2006 recording is available only in CD by ECM as far as I can tell. I too would buy a analog version,good luck.

 

[RogerD]

Ok,for the those who follow my grounding escapades,the system is still morphing. I think it will take till the middle of next week before everything stabilizes. The increase in clarity keeps driving the ability of the system to take me into the music and in a way I personally have never before experienced. The biggest effect has been on orchestral music,not in a unnatural way,because the instruments are still layered correctly front to back. The dynamics and realism are what is profound in my mind.
So the bottom line is I'm going to defer from placing the last two straps on my mono blocks. This whole grounding process has been cumulative,so I might have reached the point of satisfaction. Currently I have on Prokofiev's 5th on DG ....stunning and extremely dynamic....we will see.

 

[Tango]

Ok,for the those who follow my grounding escapades,the system is still morphing. I think it will take till the middle of next week before everything stabilizes. The increase in clarity keeps driving the ability of the system to take me into the music and in a way I personally have never before experienced. The biggest effect has been on orchestral music,not in a unnatural way,because the instruments are still layered correctly front to back. The dynamics and realism are what is profound in my mind.
So the bottom line is I'm going to defer from placing the last two straps on my mono blocks. This whole grounding process has been cumulative,so I might have reached the point of satisfaction. Currently I have on Prokofiev's 5th on DG ....stunning and extremely dynamic....we will see.

Sawasdee Mr. RogerD,

I went back to pg.15 and saw the pic you posted. You have one heck of a grounding sir. I too am a believer of grounding. I say you aint hear what your gears can give you unless you ground your devices.
One question. Does multiple grounding in a single gear has more effect than a single point?

Kind regards,
Tang

 

[RogerD]

Sawasdee Mr. RogerD,

I went back to pg.15 and saw the pic you posted. You have one heck of a grounding sir. I too am a believer of grounding. I say you aint hear what your gears can give you unless you ground your devices.
One question. Does multiple grounding in a single gear has more effect than a single point?


Kind regards,
Tang

Hi Tang,

Good question....in my experience it doesn't matter as I have both single and multiple points on each piece of gear. What does matter is the size of the grounding cable. I now use zero gauge cable. Though to be clear I only use one point to mains ground.

 

[pjwd]

Hi Tang,

Good question....in my experience it doesn't matter as I have both single and multiple points on each piece of gear. What does matter is the size of the grounding cable. I now use zero gauge cable. Though to be clear I only use one point to mains ground.

Hi RogerD - apologies if you have explained this already but do you take all your grounds back to the earth of the power point in a star ground manner - I am quite interested in this as an alternative to systems such as entreq etc.

I have certainly found wire gauge to be an improvement in power supply cables beyond what you would expect and can understand why your approach works

cheers,

Phil

 

[RogerD]

Hi RogerD - apologies if you have explained this already but do you take all your grounds back to the earth of the power point in a star ground manner - I am quite interested in this as an alternative to systems such as entreq etc.

I have certainly found wire gauge to be an improvement in power supply cables beyond what you would expect and can understand why your approach works

cheers,

Phil

Hi Phil. My preamp is the main connector for all 8 other components. So the preamp PC is the single cable back to mains ground. All of the original safety grounds are left in place. Thanks for asking.

 

[LL21]

Lloyd I think you will find out if you continue to increase the grounding pathway,is that the 100 to 200 hour settling period is actually the reset of your current IC's. As the grounding circuit removes more noise the IC's will be a conduit connection between components to transfer a purer audio signal. The more noise that is removed the more tonal richness and clarity will be revealed. I have come to the conclusion as many here have that live music is the only thing to judge by. The only other arbiter is the ability to visualize (no better word) what the microphone would hear and that can only be accomplished by training yourself to listen for the degrees of clarity in that context in your system. In my experience there are many levels of clarity and that is the essence of this puzzle and the solution too.

The system took a big leap forward late late last nite...and i was expecting that it was perhaps just the 'late nite thing' in audio in big cities.

Flipped the system on today to have some music while working this evening, and its just as killer as late last nite. Perhaps the system is indeed settling into a new level of clarity. took longer than i was expecting, but certainly not complaining.

 

[Tango]

My system is in my office room at work. Some days, it just gave me this extra extraordinary clarity. Even my wife asked what I did to the system. And she knew well how effective the Tipoint did to my systen because she helped me connect them. I went an insanely expensive way to ground my system with Tripoint. Still on some day, it sounds better than the other. I am in search for consistency.

Kind regards,
Tang

 

[LL21]

My system is in my office room at work. Some days, it just gave me this extra extraordinary clarity. Even my wife asked what I did to the system. And she knew well how effective the Tipoint did to my systen because she helped me connect them. I went an insanely expensive way to ground my system with Tripoint. Still on some day, it sounds better than the other. I am in search for consistency.

Kind regards,
Tang

Interesting...i wonder if (like NYC and London in my experience), the electric 'grid' makes a difference. do you have anything between the public electric grid and your system? Some members here have large electric sub-panels dedicated to their systems only. We have dedicated lines with a backup battery power (mainly for loss of power) and still use a Burmester Reference 948 for the source/pre. Certainly seems to keep things more consistent than before.

(BTW, also a big fan of Tripoint...and its funny, after moving house and settling in with the system which has had some delayed upgrades...my wife and I finally got around to adding the final few wires to the Tripoint and fixing some other connections i knew had not been done right...took an hour of painstaking work for my wife and me! She was great about it...and now she's working while listening to good music.)

 

[RogerD]

The system took a big leap forward late late last nite...and i was expecting that it was perhaps just the 'late nite thing' in audio in big cities.

Flipped the system on today to have some music while working this evening, and its just as killer as late last nite. Perhaps the system is indeed settling into a new level of clarity. took longer than i was expecting, but certainly not complaining.

My system is in my office room at work. Some days, it just gave me this extra extraordinary clarity. Even my wife asked what I did to the system. And she knew well how effective the Tipoint did to my systen because she helped me connect them. I went an insanely expensive way to ground my system with Tripoint. Still on some day, it sounds better than the other. I am in search for consistency.

Kind regards,
Tang

Interesting...i wonder if (like NYC and London in my experience), the electric 'grid' makes a difference. do you have anything between the public electric grid and your system? Some members here have large electric sub-panels dedicated to their systems only. We have dedicated lines with a backup battery power (mainly for loss of power) and still use a Burmester Reference 948 for the source/pre. Certainly seems to keep things more consistent than before.

(BTW, also a big fan of Tripoint...and its funny, after moving house and settling in with the system which has had some delayed upgrades...my wife and I finally got around to adding the final few wires to the Tripoint and fixing some other connections i knew had not been done right...took an hour of painstaking work for my wife and me! She was great about it...and now she's working while listening to good music.)

I think both of you...Tang and Lloyd will find at some point your increased pathway will solve the inconsistency part of your listening. The break in is the biggest issue because it takes time,and is so similar to what we experience with our cables. Why? My opinion is when you make a big change it resets the entire circuit. If the system doesn't go through a noticeable reset,then the change in SQ will be incremental. Increase the size of the pathway as needed and then that's when you say...Wow! You two are on the right track...no two systems are the same....only experimentation will lead to a significant gain in SQ. Also doing these grounding experiments will solidly improve your listening skills...that alone is worth it as you learn what changes are taking place.

 

[pjwd]

Hi Phil. My preamp is the main connector for all 8 other components. So the preamp PC is the single cable back to mains ground. All of the original safety grounds are left in place. Thanks for asking.

thanks Roger - I presume you take them back individually to preamp - I have constructed my own hardwired cable distribution box and filter using 40 x 5mm copper busbars and 5 G wire with the whole kit actively shielded with 12v via braided copper sleeves and copper mesh around filter box but I did not use large Gauge earth wire or shield it - your experience suggests I should go back and do that - or run a separate circuit as you have suggested

all very interesting

cheers

Phil

 

[RogerD]

thanks Roger - I presume you take them back individually to preamp - I have constructed my own hardwired cable distribution box and filter using 40 x 5mm copper busbars and 5 G wire with the whole kit actively shielded with 12v via braided copper sleeves and copper mesh around filter box but I did not use large Gauge earth wire or shield it - your experience suggests I should go back and do that - or run a separate circuit as you have suggested

all very interesting

cheers

Phil

Hi Phil,

5 gauge wire ? in between 4 and 6, anyway your box is a junction right? If you connect your electronics to it....yes the larger cable is needed for the pathway. You can use large cable for everything that is IC'd to your preamp. Then your junction box will be used as a connector to mains ground with all Ic'd gear connecting to it including the preamp. Use only one mains ground connection and do not lift any grounds,keep all your safety grounds in place. The important thing is to use large cable from your junction to the equipment. I don't think a large cable is required from mains ground to the junction box...10 gauge should be sufficient. I don't think you need any shielding. I use to use the center plate screw on the duplex if your in the USA for the mains connection. Now since my preamp is the junction or star,the preamp PC ground pin connection seems to handle everything I can throw at it....bottomless pit. The important point is to pull away all of the common mode noise from your equipment. Amplifiers and digital are the big culprits although everything needs to be connected for a optimum circuit IMHO.

Most properly grounded equipment has signal ground intersecting the chassis...so I only use a chassis connection and that seems to be sufficient. Unless I'm proven wrong...I go with chassis only.

 

[pjwd]

Thanks Roger - will have a play in a few weeks and let you know

cheers

Phil

 

[RogerD]

I recorded this last night on my iphone6, it has really started to settle in...not finished yet.