Munich HighEnd 2024

[D.Duttilleux]

I am sure they do. Regardless, practically any speaker can benefit from subwoofers.

Preferences may vary and I'm aware of the acoustic benefits (wrt IMD, room modes etc.), but I've yet to hear a direct radiating system with separate subs that I really like. Even when low passed <60 Hz.

 

[Amir]

I am sorry, a $200K speaker is expensive ! You dealers are just hilarious !

Please read my comment again, I did not say $200k is not expensive.

I agree $200k is expensive.

 

[morricab]

I think they use the revelator series possibly customized .

Electronics and source and off course the music itself can bring the emotions in.

I dont understand why Wilson doesnt demo with the gryphon / Viola labs./ FM acoustics/ Robert Koda

The XVX with CH was the best i ve heard the XVX although they still need a sub apparently.

CH room has consistently well set up systems.
Although overpriced and not best of the show
Nagra room has consistentiy the opposite afaic
Underpowered muddy lifeless sound.

Best i have ever heard Wilson was with Audio research and now also VTL.

With rockport lyra i got somewhat the "CH magic " with Wilson not.

I heard also the L1, M1 this year in the Vienna acoustics room .
Sounds good ...but hey still solid state.
I think i get bored with the stuff quit fast.

Pilium and Soulution have the same kinda sound character.
Made to impress with control good for soundeffects but not for a long term home environment.
Can sound sharp / hard .

Lesson i learned from this year , tubes are certainly not dead .
Tubes rule at the top of the hill
High power push pull designs

Next stop…SETs!

 

[D.Duttilleux]

So they probably only use the scan speak sliced paper membrane for the higher models ( with the advanced motor design) , but for the lower / cheaper models ?
Dont know.

Drivers of the cheaper models look much the same as the Revelators in the SS catalog.

 

[Amir]

I am sorry, a $200K speaker is expensive ! You dealers are just hilarious !

I did not say $200k is not expensive .
I agree $200k is expensive.
I did not read the price tag in pervious post so I shared my guess about the price , these speakers looks around $30k when you look at them in room.

 

[morricab]

I did not say $200k is not expensive .
I agree $200k is expensive.
I did not read the price tag in pervious post so I shared my guess about the price , these speakers looks around $30k when you look at them in room.

Sorry Amir this isn’t true. They look very expensive from the wood work alone. If you know something about drivers then you know also those used aren’t cheap.

 

[Amir]

I am sorry, a $200K speaker is expensive ! You dealers are just hilarious !

I did not say $200k is not expensive .
I agree $200k is expensive.
I did not read the price tag in pervious post so I shared my guess about the price , these speakers looks around $30k when you look at them in room.

 

[Al M.]

Preferences may vary and I'm aware of the acoustic benefits (wrt IMD, room modes etc.), but I've yet to hear a direct radiating system with separate subs that I really like. Even when low passed <60 Hz.

I guess many people overdo subs. With "full-range" speakers (there is almost no such thing) they should be used as a subtle enhancement, not as something that draws attention to itself.

Having said that, for two-way monitors subwoofers are mandatory. There they are foundational, not just a subtle enhancement.

A problem is also that many subwoofers are insufficiently adjustable. My JL Audio subs fortunately are well adjustable. They have e.l.f., extreme low frequency, attenuation, something absolutely essential in my medium sized room to avoid low frequency overload. They also have phase adjustment on a continuous scale, which can take care of unwanted cancellations. In addition, you can choose roll-off slopes.

 

[bonzo75]

Marty, I don’t know you and so my question about live music was a genuine one. It is clear now that you are a frequent concert goer, all good and glad to hear that.

I can’t help but notice though you consider Shahinian speakers as sounding like real music. So splashing sound around the room qualifies as such? What next? Heaps of praise for Bose 901s? Amar Bose had the same idea…make it sound big by splashing the sound around. Brodmann has a similar concept, which worked admittedly well for one type of music.

As to other show horns, did you not hear Acapella? The Lorenzo has potential but the bass was very problematic in that room. The big Cessaro horn didn’t sound coherent until you were out in the hallway leading to the room…the little Cessaro is very good but needs a smaller room to fully shine.

Little Cessaros are poor, that said smaller room makes no sense. Most of these small efficient speakers from Cessaro or AG and likes are capable of pressurising rooms easily, they just have a lot of compromises leading to poor bass and midranges that are independent of room size

 

[AudioLibertarian]

Pilium and Soulution have the same kinda sound character.
Made to impress with control good for soundeffects but not for a long term home environment.
Can sound sharp / hard .

Lesson i learned from this year , tubes are certainly not dead .
Tubes rule at the top of the hill
High power push pull designs

Have you actually owned , or used any models of either Pilium, or Soulution for a long periods in your own system to come to such "definitive" conclusions about these brands?! I m not a fanboy of the either brand's amplifiers, but whatever resultant sound I ve heard, especially with the Pilium was rather lush, grounded, tonally rich, and to my ears very far removed from anything that would have sounded sharp and hard. And that was in the systems using the Magico speakers, which nobody would describe as wooly sounding. And my hearing is intact, as I have it regularly tested with the audiologist, and can hear up to around 16-17 Khz. Also, in my opinion Pilium and Soulution have rather different sound signatures.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Have you actually owned , or used any models of either Pilium, or Soulution

I gave up on solid state in 2014 , the last one i owned was a Boulder 1060 .
I can make any statement i want , that why i go to dealers and Shows to make up my mind .
Its simply my preference , there are obviously lots of people who dont agree with me .
Pilium and Soulution seem to to do very well , good for them they obviously make lots of people happy

 

[bonzo75]

Have you actually owned , or used any models of either Pilium, or Soulution for a long periods in your own system to come to such "definitive" conclusions about these brands?! I m not a fanboy of the either brand's amplifiers, but whatever resultant sound I ve heard, especially with the Pilium was rather lush, grounded, tonally rich, and to my ears very far removed from anything that would have sounded sharp and hard. And that was in the systems using the Magico speakers, which nobody would describe as wooly sounding. And my hearing is intact, as I have it regularly tested with the audiologist, and can hear up to around 16-17 Khz. Also, in my opinion Pilium and Soulution have rather different sound signatures.

They are both different sounding, andro has no idea.

 

[AudioLibertarian]

I gave up on solid state in 2014 , the last one i owned was a Boulder 1060 .
I can make any statement i want , that why i go to dealers and Shows to make up my mind .
Its simply my preference , there are obviously lots of people who dont agree with me .
Pilium and Soulution seem to to very well , good for them

`You are definitely free to make -up any statements you d like, no arguments there from me.....

 

[morricab]

Little Cessaros are poor, that said smaller room makes no sense. Most of these small efficient speakers from Cessaro or AG and likes are capable of pressurising rooms easily, they just have a lot of compromises leading to poor bass and midranges that are independent of room size

No the Opus 1 sounded great last year and the year before…this year less so.

 

[andromedaaudio]

They are both different sounding, andro has no idea.

Lol , you certainly have as you are the " long term home environment owner champion "

 

[andromedaaudio]

Next stop…SETs!

I definitely have to hear a good Lamm LL1.1 ML2/ ML3 set up once in my life, i agree.

 

[bonzo75]

No the Opus 1 sounded great last year and the year before…this year less so.

I have heard the opus 1 with those Alieno electronics in a private set up. Maybe by Munich show standards it sounds good

 

[morricab]

I have heard the opus 1 with those Alieno electronics in a private set up. Maybe by Munich show standards it sounds good

Maybe the private setup wasn’t good.

 

[morricab]

I definitely have to hear a good Lamm LL1.1 ML2/ ML3 set up once in my life, i agree.

Definitely not the only really good sounding SETs out there…

 

[andromedaaudio]

Definitely not the only really good sounding SETs out there…

Show them to me ...
Don t come up with Alieno , NAF , Air tight , AN UK , KONDO etc etc .....
I want some drive in the music