Miyajima Labs Cartridges

[bonzo75]

Sorry, I have only written good things about your system repeatedly referring to the tannoys on forums. The miyajima is not based only on your audition at all, I have heard it in other places and it sucked everywhere.

There is nothing rude about this. You always take offense on forums when disagreed with. Sorry but miyajima is rolled off and takes out key musical information

There are carts which can do both Lieder and jazz and piano and violin and orchestra better. Their own mono cart can

 

[montesquieu]

Sorry, I have only written good things about your system repeatedly referring to the tannoys on forums. The miyajima is not based only on your audition at all, I have heard it in other places and it sucked everywhere.

There is nothing rude about this. You always take offense on forums when disagreed with. Sorry but miyajima is rolled off and takes out key musical information

The first time I saw you use the word 'Mudake' was immediately after a visit to my system.

 

[bonzo75]

The first time I saw you use the word 'Mudake' was immediately after a visit to my system.

I will later do a search on my negative remarks on the cart which will predate my first visit to you. I have compared it at Clive's with zyx, heard a lower model at Oswald mills next to a CD player, and at Munich the madake next to a CD player on Bergmann Sindre and Thrax phono. Also heard it through FM acoustics at Vertere next to AT 1000

I will never comment negatively on a cart on one set up. Carts vary a lot from set up to set up so it makes sense to say negative only if it is mostly, in this particular case always, negative

 

[Shuggie]

.... As for the recording, I mentioned that because Shuggie was being utterly snobbish in post mentioning classical without knowing the reference

What an absurd thing to say! You don't know anything about my musical tastes nor what other LPs and digital recordings sit in my music library.

 

[bonzo75]

What an absurd thing to say! You don't know anything about my musical tastes nor what other LPs and digital recordings sit in my music library.

Mate, read your post again. You quote a random classical LP in a justification on why we should respect your view on muddyke

 

[Shuggie]

Mate, read your post again. You quote a random classical LP in a justification on why we should respect your view on muddyke

Clearly not worth discussing this any further

 

[bonzo75]

Clearly not worth discussing this any further

Agreed

 

[bonzo75]

The first time I saw you use the word 'Mudake' was immediately after a visit to my system.

My first negative comment on Madake dates back to Oct 2016 (saying it cannot do orcchestral), and there have been steady comments by me since. The use of the word Muddyke on the forum was after visiting you, but the assessment was the same.

Btw, another owner of madake here, Jeffy, contented with me then it was better, but then moved to the middle Etsuro saying it was better. And it does not have to be only Etsuro, imo it can be any other than Koetsu. Just the user's pick

 

[Jeffy]

Bonzo, I agree the Madake is on the dark side. I have since moved on to the Etsuro Gold.

 

[squasher]

Does anyone want to buy my Madake? seriously!

I bought one based on a recommendation and never found that it floated my boat like my other cartridges. That being said, my tastes are more suited to the Lyra house-sound so it may be a purely personal thing.

If you're interested, send me a private message. It's nearly brand new and has been blessed by Robin Wyatt when I asked him to listen to it.

 

[kodomo]

Objectively (based on measurements I have made) Madake is not rolled off. It extends to 20khz and has a very good and balanced response from 20hz to 20khz and it sounds like that. I had a few cartridges including VdH Colibri MS Sig and Madake has a flatter response than that. As far as I see, people like tilted treble and madake does not have that. If one says Koetsu cartridges are rolled off, they are right as far as I the one have measured, aKoetsu Urushi Vermillion. It was actually rolled off and also had upper tilt at bass.

Madake may be hard to align with its shibata stylus, and I am thinking this being a culprit for it to shine in many places and also people nowadays like really treble hyped cartridges. I will keep mine although I bought a Miyabi Fuuga.

 

[bonzo75]

Objectively (based on measurements I have made) Madake is not rolled off. It extends to 20khz and has a very good and balanced response from 20hz to 20khz and it sounds like that. I had a few cartridges including VdH Colibri MS Sig and Madake has a flatter response than that. As far as I see, people like tilted treble and madake does not have that. If one says Koetsu cartridges are rolled off, they are right as far as I the one have measured, aKoetsu Urushi Vermillion. It was actually rolled off and also had upper tilt at bass.

Madake may be hard to align with its shibata stylus, and I am thinking this being a culprit for it to shine in many places and also people nowadays like really treble hyped cartridges. I will keep mine although I bought a Miyabi Fuuga.

The vdh differs from sample to sample. The 4k vdh that you bought was probably one of his off ones, as is usually the case with 4k euro VDH that originates from Europe. I have found 3 bad ones so far. Not saying VDH is not pushing the boundary of the highs, but a good sample to Miyajima is like a 100:1. You should get a proper vdh from someone like DDK. It requires going through a few samples and choosing, so better to pay close to actual retail for that.

You should buy vdh at bargains only if you get to hear the sample first

The Fuuga is also better than the Madake

 

[Addicted to hifi]

The vdh differs from sample to sample. The 4k vdh that you bought was probably one of his off ones, as is usually the case with 4k euro VDH that originates from Europe. I have found 3 bad ones so far. Not saying VDH is not pushing the boundary of the highs, but a good sample to Miyajima is like a 100:1. You should get a proper vdh from someone like DDK. It requires going through a few samples and choosing, so better to pay close to actual retail for that.

You should buy vdh at bargains only if you get to hear the sample first

The Fuuga is also better than the Madake

I once owned a vdh black beauty and it sounded ok but was a very poor tracker.couldn’t handle certain bass passengers without jumping out of the groove.I wonder if it’s all vdhs or just the black beauty.

 

[kodomo]

The vdh differs from sample to sample. The 4k vdh that you bought was probably one of his off ones, as is usually the case with 4k euro VDH that originates from Europe. I have found 3 bad ones so far. Not saying VDH is not pushing the boundary of the highs, but a good sample to Miyajima is like a 100:1. You should get a proper vdh from someone like DDK. It requires going through a few samples and choosing, so better to pay close to actual retail for that.

You should buy vdh at bargains only if you get to hear the sample first

The Fuuga is also better than the Madake

There was nothing wrong with it, it was checked by AJ himself and he wrote to me as such. I just did not like its balance, and my arms was not the best for it, the rest was very impressive, the depth of bass, the dynamics, the stage... Lots of high price mc cartridges have upper tilt towards treble, if its pronounced over 10khz this makes them airy, if it is from about 5khz to 10khz, where most of the harmonics reside, people call them open and rich. This range also makes the cymbals more apparent and people call this cymbals sounding natural but generally they become more prominent in the mix than they are supposed to be. These are what you learn at a studio at mixing and are done with eq at that stage. I would like to leave that to engineers.

I try to match (as much as I can) what people say to objective measurements I take. These things I have written above were not true just for cartridges but for speaker responses as well. When cartridges or speakers have a deviation from the flat response this gives them a character and depending on the deviation, they may work with certain styles or certain recordings or become more suited to particular listeners or groups that have a certain expectation/taste.

 

[audioblazer]

I love muddyke. Had original Madake & Snakewood version. Few of my audio friends have it as well . If some can enjoy Denon 103, why not muddyke

 

[bonzo75]

There was nothing wrong with it, it was checked by AJ himself and he wrote to me as such. I just did not like its balance, and my arms was not the best for it, the rest was very impressive, the depth of bass, the dynamics, the stage... Lots of high price mc cartridges have upper tilt towards treble, if its pronounced over 10khz this makes them airy, if it is from about 5khz to 10khz, where most of the harmonics reside, people call them open and rich. This range also makes the cymbals more apparent and people call this cymbals sounding natural but generally they become more prominent in the mix than they are supposed to be. These are what you learn at a studio at mixing and are done with eq at that stage. I would like to leave that to engineers.

I try to match (as much as I can) what people say to objective measurements I take. These things I have written above were not true just for cartridges but for speaker responses as well. When cartridges or speakers have a deviation from the flat response this gives them a character and depending on the deviation, they may work with certain styles or certain recordings or become more suited to particular listeners or groups that have a certain expectation/taste.

Vdh is the preferred choice of Schroeder and Schick with Western Electrics, Kevin was loving it on Vox Paladians, for me, Tang, and DDK, and now Peter and Tima all with differing experiences it is the obvious choice. So I will disagree with your assessment, it comes down to an incorrect sample or improper set up (possibly due to your cart not matching your arm).I don't think think in this particular case it is a preference issue because I do not think two people can compare vdh notes unless they have heard the same vdh. So what you heard with yours would be right with that sample. When the vdh is right, everyone is in thrall, as evidenced by the number of people who are in awe of the Munich western electrics where it is being used since 2016 (first the crimson and then the signature stradivarius). You see the crowd in that room and no one loving it thought it was tilted in the highs.

It is by far the most natural cart in terms of tone, along with the top wing red sparrow when used with a linear tracker. Also the most nuanced. Yes it can have a tendency to be a bit lean in the midbass. If the sibilance is is causing issues it is better to have two carts, one the VDH for most of the classical and jazz, and one for where the sibilance disturbs. It is also the most nuanced on piano and violin and can do both the strike and the body of the piano amazingly well with inner nuances which other carts miss. On harpsichord, any other cart compared to the VDH is like taking half of the harpsichord off. My comments are only for the stradivarius and not for the black beauty, colibri, etc.

 

[kodomo]

Stradivarius is a colibri and I am not talking about my preference but what measurements show and what I have seen as a listener preference and it’s correlations with measurements. I would love to see measurements from Tangs or others that sound right to its owners to learn more

 

[bonzo75]

Stradivarius is a colibri

I was referring to his older colibris.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Stradivarius is a colibri and I am not talking about my preference but what measurements show and what I have seen as a listener preference and it’s correlations with measurements. I would love to see measurements from Tangs or others that sound right to its owners to learn more

If you see my posts over last couple of years, I have always pointed out the rising frequency response of the VDH strad carts (making myself unpopular at times in the process lol). I think the words all “tits and arse” was my last description. What you have measured with your sample isn’t surprising and I am fairly sure you’ll find the rising frequency response with all samples. It was the same with the previous Colibri range. Doesn’t AJ provide a measured response of the cart I the box? Interestingly I hear the same in most VDH strad videos.
The rising frequency response might perversely be desired with some vintage designs since they rarely have the upper measured extension beyond 12-14khz.

 

[bonzo75]

If you see my posts over last couple of years, I have always pointed out the rising frequency response of the VDH strad carts (making myself unpopular at times in the process lol). I think the words all “tits and arse” was my last description. What you have measured with your sample isn’t surprising and I am fairly sure you’ll find the rising frequency response with all samples. It was the same with the previous Colibri range. Doesn’t AJ provide a measured response of the cart I the box? Interestingly I hear the same in most VDH strad videos.
The rising frequency response might perversely be desired with some vintage designs since they rarely have the upper measured extension beyond 12-14khz.

It sounds equally good with the Western electrics as it does with Tang's 5 way TADs and vox Palladian, both which have the ET 703 tweeter above TADs

The vdh strad I got to your place was the worst vdh strad I heard. Either the sample was bad or the linear tracker air pressure did not work or both. Again it was the 4k euro sample from the Dutch guy who sells online