Micro and macro dynamics...a discussion.

treitz3

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Good afternoon, forum members. Every once in a while, you see someone mention micro and macro dynamics. What exactly is this in your experience and/or opinion and can you provide some real world examples so those who are not in the know can understand the differences a bit better?

Tom
 

Ethan Winer

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I've been part of such discussions before and it was not pretty. :D

Dynamics relates to how the volume of sound changes over time. But there's no such thing as microdynamics. It's a meaningless term that means whatever the person using it wants it to mean.

--Ethan
 

microstrip

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Gregadd

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Microdynamics


Macrodynamics


 

Soundproof

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Ah, microdynamics. It's hard enough to get people to agree on what dynamics mean in music, who knows what microdynamics are? All bets are off, in a way. But those who think that dynamics mean Whooomph!, probably consider microdynamics to be the ability to resolve (near) infinitesimal details. (There an impossible thing to hunt for, but nothing is impossible in audiophilia.)

It's often quite confusing when terms that have established meanings in music are used in scattershot manner in hi-fi, but it's also often quite amusing. As when wires add a half or full octave to the bottom register, there's a wonder for you!
 

FrantzM

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Microdynamics


Macrodynamics



What do you know ? Now mp3 is good enough to reproduce both "micro" and "macro" dynamics... :)

@Soundproof

+!
 

mep

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And I can still here the distortion inherent in that Myles Davis cut even over my crappy computer speakers.
 

microstrip

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Micro and macro dynamics is not the capability of resolving small details or handle very large signals. IMHO it is more related with variation of the level in small details and large signals and the capability of being perceived more like the real thing at these levels. It is a system property - a wrong choice in a system, or a bad acoustics room can kill the system ability to handle micro and macro dynamics.
 

mep

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Good afternoon, forum members. Every once in a while, you see someone mention micro and macro dynamics. What exactly is this in your experience and/or opinion and can you provide some real world examples so those who are not in the know can understand the differences a bit better?

Tom

Here is as good of a definition that I have seen and it's rooted in the real-world of music and how music is read and played:

"The two basic dynamic indications in music are:

p or piano, meaning "soft", and[2][3]
f or forte, meaning "loud."[2][4]

More subtle degrees of loudness or softness are indicated by:

mp, standing for mezzo-piano, meaning "moderately soft", and
mf, standing for mezzo-forte, meaning "moderately loud".[5]

Beyond f and p, there are also

pp, standing for "pianissimo" and meaning "very soft", and
ff, standing for "fortissimo" and meaning "very loud".[5]

To indicate an even softer dynamic than pianissimo, ppp is marked, with the reading pianissimo possibile ("softest possible"). The same is done on the loud side of the scale, with fff being fortissimo possibile ("loudest possible").[6][7]
Note Velocity is a MIDI measurement of the speed with which the key goes from its rest position to completely depressed, with 127, the largest value in a 7-bit number, being instantaneous, and meaning as loud as possible.

Few pieces contain dynamic designations with more than three f's or p's. In Holst's The Planets, ffff occurs twice in Mars and once in Uranus often punctuated by organ and fff occurs several times throughout the work. It also appears in Heitor Villa-Lobos' Bachianas Brasileiras No. 4 (Prelude). The Norman Dello Joio Suite for Piano ends with a crescendo to a ffff, and Tchaikovsky indicated a bassoon solo pppppp in his Pathétique Symphony and ffff in passages of his 1812 Overture and the 2nd movement of his Fifth Symphony. Igor Stravinsky used ffff at the end of the finale of the Firebird Suite. ffff is also found in a prelude by Rachmaninoff, op.3-2. Shostakovich even went as loud as fffff in his fourth symphony. Gustav Mahler, in the third movement of his Seventh Symphony, gives the celli and basses a marking of fffff, along with a footnote directing 'pluck so hard that the strings hit the wood.' On another extreme, Carl Nielsen, in the second movement of his Symphony No. 5, marked a passage for woodwinds a diminuendo to ppppp. Another more extreme dynamic is in György Ligeti's Études No. 13 (Devil's Staircase), which has at one point a ffffff and progresses to a ffffffff. In Ligeti's Études No. 9, he uses pppppppp. In the baritone passage Era la notte from his opera Otello, Verdi uses pppp. Steane (1971) and others suggest that such markings are in reality a strong reminder to less than subtle singers to at least sing softly rather than an instruction to the singer actually to attempt a pppp. Usually, the extra f's or 'ps written reinforce either ff or pp, and are usually only for dramatic effect.

In music for marching band, passages louder than fff are sometimes colloquially referred to by descriptive terms such as "blastissimo".

Dynamic indications are relative, not absolute. mp does not indicate an exact level of volume, it merely indicates that music in a passage so marked should be a little louder than p and a little quieter than mf. Interpretations of dynamic levels are left mostly to the performer; in the Barber Piano Nocturne, a phrase beginning pp is followed by a diminuendo leading to a mp marking. Another instance of performer's discretion in this piece occurs when the left hand is shown to crescendo to a f, and then immediately after marked p while the right hand plays the melody f. It has been speculated that this is used simply to remind the performer to keep the melody louder than the harmonic line in the left hand. In some music notation programs, there are default MIDI key velocity values associated with these indications, but more sophisticated programs allow users to change these as needed."

Based on the above information, I don't know how it can be disputed that microdynamics and macrodynamics exist in the real world. And I say that knowing that anything and everything in the audio world can and will be debated until the dead horse is down to tooth, hair, and bone.
 

JackD201

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micro=small
macro=large

In terms of a signal it the ability to resolve small voltage swings and large voltage swings and hopefully this will also be resolved in the acoustic domain. That's the way I see it anyway.

The only thing that is a gray area is where one stops and the other begins. A well implemented system should be able to let you hear small events despite simultaneous loud events.

They are both just subsets of dynamics.
 

cjfrbw

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Guess I would have to agree with Ethan. Microdynamics is a kind of audiophile spitballing to describe certain kinds of internal detailing, being able to hear different reverberant trains and tails simultaneously, and probably really doesn't have anything to do with volume relationships or the rapid speed of a system that can start and stop on a dime i.e. 0 db to 120 db in a split second.

The only analogy would be visual, seeing the big picture for macro vs. seeing down to the pixel level for micro. A better stereo system presumably has finer pixels and shades, but one could really make microdynamics mean anything one wanted, since it is redundancy to refer to dynamics any but a single way.
 

ack

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Here's how musicians define these terms:


  • Musical Nuance= alterations in volume over time, alterations of pulse, coloring of articulation; ADSR.
  • Macro Dynamics= the traditional notation on a score; f mp, pp, etc.
  • Micro Dynamics= The subtle changes in volume that are not notated by the composer and are dictated by principles inherent in nature.

http://bbamusic.wikispaces.com/Micro+Dynamics

w/o micro-dynamics the music sounds a bit uninteresting
 

mep

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I don't agree Carl. I think the explanation I posted of ppp to fff accurately describes the differences between microdynamics and macrodynamics. Even at very low levels (p and below), there are very small differences in dynamics among those already very soft tones. I hope the hell we can call those microdynamics. An orchestra playing at f and above should be considered macrodynamics. We can argue on when the transition occurs from micro to macro, but there is a transition. It's what makes classical music so dynamic if recorded well.

I'm already seeing the flesh disappear from the dead horse...
 

opus111

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I'm no expert on audiophile parlance, but how I understand it is macrodynamics is what I'd call simply 'dynamics'. The variation between the softest and loudest sounds - the 'jump factor' of the music. In video this would be analogous to the contrast ratio.

'Microdynamics' OTOH is more like prosody in speech - how well a system conveys the delicate nuances of the performer. Can you feel the 'swing' or the rubato for example? Does the music make you want to dance? This is just my impression based on how I've seen the term used.
 

cjfrbw

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OK, I will cave with a caveat that microdynamics is a musical, as opposed to audiophile term, and that you might say you can HEAR microdynamics better. However, that would be into the old subjectivist-objectivist paradigm, which is a tar of a different feather.

Saying that one amplifier has better microdynamics than another might be a slaughter of parlance.
 

NorthStar

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-- My turn. :b

Macrodynamics are the large swings in dynamics, like from the drum's strokes to the full orchestral impact.

Microdynamics are the subtle details in low passages, like the breathing of the singer, the musical pages being turned, the decay of a string being stricken...
 

JackD201

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rise time, slew rate, switching speed...........
 

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