Led Zeppelin - best CD release to buy IMO

[Orb]

Paladia TV last week had a LZ concert from many years ago that was terrific to watch

Hehe even live LZ concerts has a lot of debate to which is the best version
Glad you caught a good one.

Some love How The West Was Won while others complain about that concert, others suggest bootleg of one of the earlier concerts are better,etc.
Some of my family went to see Led Zeppelin at Earls Court 1975.
Ah they queued for freaking ages to get those tickets, and thank goodness I did not go because while they said the concert was amazing the sound levels I am sure did a bit of damage to everyone's hearing that night.
Their hearing was muffled for a good many hours afterwards gulp.

Cheers
Orb

 

[rbbert]

I decided to compare some sources this afternoon.

For the studio albums, the best CD sound is indeed in the 4 CD 1990 box - Clean & relatively uncompressed.

FWIW, though, 24/96 needledrops of the Classic Records 45 rpm's absolutely blow them away- more dynamic, better tonal balance, cleaner. These also sound better than the 2007 LP releases.

I wonder if there is any chance the new expanded releases of the albums rumored for this year will include some sort of higher-res digital version?

 

[Bill Hart]

I'm kind of all over the place on LZ, at least on vinyl (since I don't have a CD player in the main system). I have the original LZ 1 that I bought new back in the day- I think it is a Piros, but haven't checked it recently. I also have the Classic Records reissue which plays fine and is less noisy- face it, I started playing my original copy of LZ 1 to death on an AR table with a Shure cartridge circa 1969 and while i took good care of my records as a teen, I continued playing it for decades. I have various copies of LZ II, including an old MoFi, and the desirable 'RL' mastered one. (I also have another copy of LZII that I bought new when it was first released, but have yet to find it- I'm not sure if that copy is an 'RL'). I only bought III recently, and on that, I bought the Classic Records pressing- it sounds very good, better than I expected. I have old miscellaneous copies of IV, HOTH ( I forget which pressing) and that's about it. I really don't listen to the albums after III. My favorite is the first album,musically but it's probably the worst recording of the first three albums.Overall, of the first three albums, the 'RL' of II is the killer, sonically and my copy is hardly mint.
I liked Mothership- it certainly isn't as warm sounding as the Classic Records I and III and I assume came from a digital master. It comes nowhere near the dynamics of the RL version of LZ II. The Mofi II is a better than average sounding LZ record- quiet surfaces, but tweaked in the way that almost all MoFi vinyl was. In the case of LZ II it probably doesn't matter, because there is very little on that album that's pure acoustic stuff anyway- all kinds of phasing tricks, weird stuff- Page manipulating the tapes when he put it together to get the sound he wanted. My bet is III is the most natural sounding of the ones I listen to. I have no idea how this translates to CD. Mothership is pretty good for what it is- I think it's a better job than that recent Beatles boxed set, but that may be a back-handed compliment.
PS: Steve, I know Palladia was playing the movie that had the Madison Square Garden footage a while ago- The Song Remains the Same? It was a weird movie and I found some of the camera work annoying, but hey, I don't know how much footage is available of them in concert. My absolute favorite is that Scandinavian TV show of them when they first broke, playing 4 songs that ultimately appeared on the first album. The whole vibe is very low key, they are not really acting like rock stars, no stage to speak of, and the audience, mostly clean cut teens, are sitting cross-legged if memory serves, on the floor surrounding the band. Page is playing a Telecaster, and is clearly the band leader. They were all young, fresh, and totally kicking ass. And this was really the earliest days of the band as far as I know. That footage is available on a DVD that collects a lot of their stuff and was released in in the mid-2000's?

 

[Orb]

I decided to compare some sources this afternoon.

For the studio albums, the best CD sound is indeed in the 4 CD 1990 box - Clean & relatively uncompressed.

FWIW, though, 24/96 needledrops of the Classic Records 45 rpm's absolutely blow them away- more dynamic, better tonal balance, cleaner. These also sound better than the 2007 LP releases.

I wonder if there is any chance the new expanded releases of the albums rumored for this year will include some sort of higher-res digital version?

One has to hope it is from an early master or original tapes, with the trend of each remaster it would be interesting to see if Jimmy Page would dial it back to make a stunning LP release.
Wonder how many LPs are created from a modern digital master.
BTW which album you looking at for the Classic Records?
Thanks for taking time for checking.
Cheers
Orb

 

[Orb]

Mothership was remastered at Alchemy in London by John Davis, while the 4CD (Untitled) and 2CD (Remasters) was remastered at Stirling Sound New York by George Marino.
Just a headsup if looking to compare.
Cheers
Orb

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Maybe I should buy this set. Not a huge fan, but I need the occasional dose. I have the infamous first CDs of I - IV and Physical Graffiti, and I have Mothership. And to tell you the truth, Mothership is so loud, and on some tunes so treble-pumped, that I'd rather listen to the originals with a bit of EQ and a lot of volume boost. On a lot of cuts, I don't find them nearly as bad as many seem to think they are. Some cuts are bad, yes, but they're bad in every form I've heard them, including vinyl (and yes, Mark, I've heard the vinyl in this century). These are not the best recordings. Zep played with tone in the studio, not always successfully. Listening to Babe I'm Gonna Leave You right now. I definitely prefer the original to Mothership, though you have to reach for the volume control. The difference is dramatic.

Tim

 

[Orb]

With you Tim on that.
Really not a fan of the Mothership remaster, or in fact any of the remasters since the one by George Marino/Stirling Sound.
Mothership unlistenable to me, I do wonder what Jimmy Page's idea is behind this.
Possibly only one I like apart from the 4CD set is the MTV unplugged; although this was only Jimmy Page and Robert Plant, called No Quarter Unledded.
Different to the LZ studio recordings but done very very well although I prefer Plant's voice earlier in his career, anyway very good especially compared to later CDs.
Here is the info for the release:
http://www.discogs.com/Jimmy-Page-R...Jimmy-Page-Robert-Plant-Unledded/master/90611

So another recommendation is that Unledded, but important to note the music arrangement for songs is different to classic LZ rock, so might be worth listening to track examples first.
Do not be put off by MTV, they did some very good live setups.
Cheers
Orb

 

[Bill Hart]

Interesting re Mothership. I never listened to the cd versions only the vinyl and while it doesn't compare to some of the better pressings I mentioned it, i don't remember it being quite as nasty as you guys describe. Perhaps different eq or end product on the vinyl version? Not that I am a huge fan of digital vinyl, but ....
And I agree the original recordings of the first two albums are not great. The third album sounds the best sonically but it is no benchmark for good sound. Beyond that, I drew the line at Stairway and later albums- just don't listen to them.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Interesting re Mothership. I never listened to the cd versions only the vinyl and while it doesn't compare to some of the better pressings I mentioned it, i don't remember it being quite as nasty as you guys describe. Perhaps different eq or end product on the vinyl version? Not that I am a huge fan of digital vinyl, but ....

Bill - I agree! Having said that, I don't have any UK original or Classic reissues to compare, but I don't think its an unpleasant experience to listen to either. My biggest complaint about the Mothership set is that it doesn't include The Rain Song. Always wondered why that was.

 

[LL21]

Possibly only one I like apart from the 4CD set is the MTV unplugged; although this was only Jimmy Page and Robert Plant, called No Quarter Unledded.
Different to the LZ studio recordings but done very very well although I prefer Plant's voice earlier in his career, anyway very good especially compared to later CDs.
Here is the info for the release:
http://www.discogs.com/Jimmy-Page-R...Jimmy-Page-Robert-Plant-Unledded/master/90611
Orb

MTV Unplugged was a very good series. Clapton Unplugged, the two Best of...all excellent imho. I also got the Corrs. I have ordered the one above used after sampling the snips on Amazon. Thanks!

 

[rbbert]

MTV Unplugged was a very good series. Clapton Unplugged, the two Best of...all excellent imho. I also got the Corrs. I have ordered the one above used after sampling the snips on Amazon. Thanks!

Just FYI, Unledded was not part of the MTV Unplugged Series.

 

[Orb]

Bill - I agree! Having said that, I don't have any UK original or Classic reissues to compare, but I don't think its an unpleasant experience to listen to either. My biggest complaint about the Mothership set is that it doesn't include The Rain Song. Always wondered why that was.

John, you listening to CD or LP?
This may be relevant because of my example regarding Metallica and their recent album; it was seriously poor in terms of dynamics and mastering, but the LP handles this better than digital as it does provide marginally more dynamic headroom and also does not suffer the same issues as digital clipping with a -3 to 0dBFS signal.
Metallica one was interesting for people to analyse because there was the CD/LP/and game version (Guitar Heroes I think), showing said benefit.
Best to compare like for like, anyway this is definitely one benefit of playing LPs over CD.
Cheers
Orb

 

[LL21]

Just FYI, Unledded was not part of the MTV Unplugged Series.

Thanks for the clarification...after listening, i decided to order it...i got the Whitesnake Unplugged live in Japan album and liked it. Sorry to make the comparison...but felt equally that this seemed like quite a promising album.

 

[Shaffer]

Here is the info for the release:
http://www.discogs.com/Jimmy-Page-R...Jimmy-Page-Robert-Plant-Unledded/master/90611

This inspired me to play the 2LP pressing of the title. It's on the 'table right now. In an ultimate sense, it's a bit sterile lacking a fleshed-out harmonic texture. Somewhat synthetic sounding; the opposite of organic. Ironic, given the instrumentation and the arrangements. I also have a copy of Walking into Clarksdale. Might play that next....

[OT] A little OT, still can't believe what folks are asking for the records. I mean, engraved in my mind is a scene where piles, and I mean piles, of these LPs are sitting in boxes with folks just walking by not taking a second look. It was like that with most titles. Virtually no-one wanted them. Today, it's a LP Bizzaro Land. My head is still spinning. I'm not complaining, mind you. [/OT]

 

[Bill Hart]

This inspired me to play the 2LP pressing of the title. It's on the 'table right now. In an ultimate sense, it's a bit sterile lacking a fleshed-out harmonic texture. Somewhat synthetic sounding; the opposite of organic. Ironic, given the instrumentation and the arrangements. I also have a copy of Walking into Clarksdale. Might play that next....

[OT] A little OT, still can't believe what folks are asking for the records. I mean, engraved in my mind is a scene where piles, and I mean piles, of these LPs are sitting in boxes with folks just walking by not taking a second look. It was like that with most titles. Virtually no-one wanted them. Today, it's a LP Bizzaro Land. My head is still spinning. I'm not complaining, mind you. [/OT]

The 'RL' of LZ II is pretty impressive. The prices are very high, though. I'm not sure how many were pressed before they changed the mastering; sure, there are millions of copies of LZII floating around, but not sure how many are 'RL' let alone in decent shape. The price of a mint one is pretty obscene. I tried to buy one recently, and I just couldn't rationalize it.

 

[Orb]

Just FYI, Unledded was not part of the MTV Unplugged Series.

Was it then produced by Page/Plant for MTV?
Because it was definitely recorded in front of a live audience for MTV, and MTV approached both of them to do an Unplugged and I know the name was changed to Unledded as it still used electronics.
Also I appreciate this was recorded at different locations over 2 days.
Hate using wiki but it says:

The initial plans for a reunion were made in 1993, with discussions between the two of collaborating emerging from casual small talk and then an invitation to perform on MTV Unplugged. Music producer Bill Curbishley, who had been managing Plant since the 1980s and who assumed management of Page in 1994, was integral in the reuniting of Page and Plant. Despite failed attempts by others to reunite the pair, Curbishley was able to persuade the previously reluctant Plant into working with Page again.[1] In an interview he gave in 2004, Page recounted the background:

I was going to play in Japan with David, the only time we played live, and I had a call from Robert's management to pop in and see Robert in Boston on the way to LA to rehearse. Robert said, "I've been approached by MTV to do an Unplugged and I'd really like to do it with you", so I said OK. It gave us a chance to revisit some numbers and use that same picture with a very, very different frame.[2]
Plant's recollection of the reunion was as follows:

By that time I didn't feel like I was even a rock singer anymore ... Then I was approached by MTV to do an Unplugged session. But I knew that I couldn't be seen to be holding the flag for the Zeppelin legacy on TV. Then mysteriously Jimmy turned up at a gig I was playing in Boston and it was like those difficult last days of Led Zep had vanished. We had this understanding again without doing or saying anything. We talked about the MTV thing and decided to see where we could take it.[3]
Led Zeppelin's main songwriters reformed on April 17, 1994 as a part of the Alexis Korner Memorial Concert at Buxton, England. On August 25 and August 26, they taped performances in London, Wales, and Morocco with Egyptian and Moroccan orchestration of several Led Zeppelin tunes along with four new songs

BBC says:

It's thought that Page and Plant returned to the cottage again in 1994 to write material for their MTV Unplugged session No Quarter: Jimmy Page and Robert Plant Unledded. The video was also filmed at one of the nearby Corris slate quarries.

But nothing says who actually managed,produced,mixed, and recorded these live sessions, hmm interesting to know how much this did involve MTV.
Cheers
Orb

 

[Bill Hart]

Isn't the Clapton Unplugged taken from a digital master, even on the vinyl? (I assume the LZ stuff was too, that's why I am asking).

 

[Orb]

Isn't the Clapton Unplugged taken from a digital master, even on the vinyl? (I assume the LZ stuff was too, that's why I am asking).

Hehe this is like a pub quiz, ah well gives us all something to do; if anyone finds out please post - will try to check into it myself as well.
Cheers
Orb

 

[Orb]

Well quick looks suggest both are live recordings with a small audience.
Eric Claption Bray Studios, and Page/Plant recorded on location at Marrakech, Maroc; Snowdonia, Wales; London, Albion.

Looking on Discogs it shows both of these as new recordings and not remasters, but this does not mean MTV was necessarily the ones responsible for setting up the live small gig I guess even if it was for them.
Cheers
Orb

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Isn't the Clapton Unplugged taken from a digital master, even on the vinyl? (I assume the LZ stuff was too, that's why I am asking).

I have the German pressing of this (EC:Unplugged) and there is nothing to indicate what master was used. If it is indeed a digital master then I say....gimme more.