KR 242, Elrog 300, px4, px25, EML and KR 5u4g, and KR 274b

[Alrainbow]

Good morning
Thanks for your posting.
If ok I have a few questions
How was the noise floor with the px25 over the other tubes
Besides the two recti you mentioned was a tak or we 274B tried
Low level details what tube have the most in this setting I call it blackness. When music gets quit there is often low sounds sometimes hum or chairs. When I bought my MSB it was the first thing I noticed. One of the tubes you posted of for me did this better than the rest
Color is a funny thing for me it's why I like one over another in some ways
When I first heard the px25 it's what I thought and they had that 300b sound and weight

 

[bonzo75]

Good morning
Thanks for your posting.
If ok I have a few questions
How was the noise floor with the px25 over the other tubes
Besides the two recti you mentioned was a tak or we 274B tried
Low level details what tube have the most in this setting I call it blackness. When music gets quit there is often low sounds sometimes hum or chairs. When I bought my MSB it was the first thing I noticed. One of the tubes you posted of for me did this better than the rest
Color is a funny thing for me it's why I like one over another in some ways
When I first heard the px25 it's what I thought and they had that 300b sound and weight

Hi that is probably the most perfect spell check you have had Al.

Sorry, what did you notice in your MSB - more noise or less?

There were other valves in the pre and power. I think we will answer your question better after the demo at Bill, because he has an SS integrated, so if there is any hum, or lack of noise, it will come purely from the valves. He has the PX25 already, so his comment might be more valid. He is also extremely sensitive to noise

I am quite ok with liking color, but I don't want the same color on all music. I like Jadis, where I don't hear the component's color as a constant, though I know it is adding distortions. But each distortion seems natural for that particular music.

 

[Alrainbow]

The noise I spoke of is the system that allows one to hear more of the recording
My MSB allowed me to hear low level music details that were not noises but decernable sounds
The px 25 lowered the noise much more than the MSB something that no dac ever did
My system is dead silent but playing it loud can reveal these sounds as well. The px25 tubes allow me to do this at lower volumes

 

[bonzo75]

The noise I spoke of is the system that allows one to hear more of the recording
My MSB allowed me to hear low level music details that were not noises but decernable sounds
The px 25 lowered the noise much more than the MSB something that no dac ever did
My system is dead silent but playing it loud can reveal these sounds as well. The px25 tubes allow me to do this at lower volumes

I understand what you mean. I think it's a good match for your system. Will be interesting to see if PX4 sounds better or noisier in your system.

 

[Alrainbow]

Let's see the tubes are in my place to try tomorrow

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Hi that is probably the most perfect spell check you have had Al.

Sorry, what did you notice in your MSB - more noise or less?

There were other valves in the pre and power. I think we will answer your question better after the demo at Bill, because he has an SS integrated, so if there is any hum, or lack of noise, it will come purely from the valves. He has the PX25 already, so his comment might be more valid. He is also extremely sensitive to noise

I am quite ok with liking color, but I don't want the same color on all music. I like Jadis, where I don't hear the component's color as a constant, though I know it is adding distortions. But each distortion seems natural for that particular music.

Hello Lamp's,

Hi can say with certainty that px4 and px25 have easily the lowest levels of noise - as Ked said, I am super fussy about this cos I listen to a lot of solo piano and violin at front row seat loudness

I believe that this is the technical reason why you are liking px4 so much. Super low electrical noise means resolution hitherto unmasked and that is very important IMHO.

 

[bonzo75]

Hello Lamp's,

Hi can say with certainty that px4 and px25 have easily the lowest levels of noise - as Ked said, I am super fussy about this cos I listen to a lot of solo piano and violin at front row seat loudness

I believe that this is the technical reason why you are liking px4 so much. Super low electrical noise means resolution hitherto unmasked and that is very important IMHO.

I don't think noise is the only reason to like it. It gives a very natural tone to different things. Aged Robert Plant sounds rightly hoarse. Chorals are painted at the back of the speakers across the room. They is great bass and dynamics. And cello notes are very well differentiated, each note stands out well.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

I don't think noise is the only reason to like it. It gives a very natural tone to different things. Aged Robert Plant sounds rightly hoarse. Chorals are painted at the back of the speakers across the room. They is great bass and dynamics. And cello notes are very well differentiated, each note stands out well.

It is chicken and egg, Ked. Is the reduction of noise / hash allowing the lovely tone? We won't know but can but guess. Again I notice that reductions in noise always lead to better layering and depth of soundstage. Differentiation of notes makes sense with quieter noise floor and of course dynamics is linked to signal to noise.

 

[Audiocrack]

Hello Lamp's,

Hi can say with certainty that px4 and px25 have easily the lowest levels of noise - as Ked said, I am super fussy about this cos I listen to a lot of solo piano and violin at front row seat loudness

I believe that this is the technical reason why you are liking px4 so much. Super low electrical noise means resolution hitherto unmasked and that is very important IMHO.

May I ask you the following: do the afore mentioned tubes have in Ked's and your view a lower noisefloor than the Elrog 300b and Lukasz's anniversary mesh tubes?

Does any of the GG you and Ked listened to have a (dedicated) grounding post? I am asking because Lukasz added one to my GG on my special request and I am wondering if this - yes/no separate grounding of the GG - might influence your call regarding the noise floor of the various tubes that have been used.

 

[bonzo75]

May I ask you the following: do the afore mentioned tubes have in Ked's and your view a lower noisefloor than the Elrog 300b and Lukasz's anniversary mesh tubes?

Does any of the GG you and Ked listened to have a (dedicated) grounding post? I am asking because Lukasz added one to my GG on my special request and I am wondering if this - yes/no separate grounding of the GG - might influence your call regarding the noise floor of the various tubes that have been used.

Hi no, none of us in the tube roll group made any comment on that so there must not have been a noticeable difference.

There was a lot of Verictum grounding available

 

[bonzo75]

It is chicken and egg, Ked. Is the reduction of noise / hash allowing the lovely tone? We won't know but can but guess. Again I notice that reductions in noise always lead to better layering and depth of soundstage. Differentiation of notes makes sense with quieter noise floor and of course dynamics is linked to signal to noise.

And sometimes lower noise floor by replacing valves with SS can lead to totally artificial tone despite noticing lower noise floor. Happens with amps many times.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

May I ask you the following: do the afore mentioned tubes have in Ked's and your view a lower noisefloor than the Elrog 300b and Lukasz's anniversary mesh tubes?

Does any of the GG you and Ked listened to have a (dedicated) grounding post? I am asking because Lukasz added one to my GG on my special request and I am wondering if this - yes/no separate grounding of the GG - might influence your call regarding the noise floor of the various tubes that have been used.

+1.

I'm chassis grounding my GG with Elrog 300b's with the Tripoint Troy Sig as well as the Tara Labs Grandmaster Evolution RCA interconnects are grounded too.

would that matter when tube rolling? don't know....but context could matter.

I suspect a larger issue might be (1) overall system noise, and (2) system sonic balance especially the inherent dynamics of the system and whether it needs a dynamic balance boost from the tube at the expense of tonal weight. hard to see how system balance or even choice of preamp and amplifier would not matter.

some tube choice might be larger than system context, but some might not be.

 

[Jazzhead]

Bonzo...What source material have you guys been testing with ?... DSD I presume .

 

[bonzo75]

+1.

I'm chassis grounding my GG with Elrog 300b's with the Tripoint Troy Sig as well as the Tara Labs Grandmaster Evolution RCA interconnects are grounded too.

would that matter when tube rolling? don't know....but context could matter.

I suspect a larger issue might be (1) overall system noise, and (2) system sonic balance especially the inherent dynamics of the system and whether it needs a dynamic balance boost from the tube at the expense of tonal weight.

Hi Mike, that's why we will compare in different systems as different systems have different tone/weight/dynamic character

 

[bonzo75]

What source material have you guys been testing with ?... DSD I presume .

No PCM.

 

[Jazzhead]

No PCM.

via the new R2R boards ? why no DSD , is not supposed to be it's calling card ??

 

[Alrainbow]

I posted this observation some where and it seems this is a place it's needed now
In my quest for a better server several observations have come to light
One is clarity of notes
Another is better defining of the stage
Layers of tone of the notes
When all of the above have been lowered last is blackness of music as to where it comes from
No driver tubes I own do what the Kron does in blackness. If you do not have the first few and a clean low noise system you do not get the blackness. Besides speakers I have headphones they display the above it steps my speakers do but in ways that make it obvious
Anyone who uses good headphones hears noise better than a speaker use does

 

[bonzo75]

via the new R2R boards ?

Yes. Greg and Rob also did one with the old PCM and conclusion was same. That was as per previous shootout system, except they didn't have the Elrog but had the special 45 then

 

[Audiophile Bill]

May I ask you the following: do the afore mentioned tubes have in Ked's and your view a lower noisefloor than the Elrog 300b and Lukasz's anniversary mesh tubes?

Does any of the GG you and Ked listened to have a (dedicated) grounding post? I am asking because Lukasz added one to my GG on my special request and I am wondering if this - yes/no separate grounding of the GG - might influence your call regarding the noise floor of the various tubes that have been used.

Hi Rudolph,

I can't answer your question versus Elrog and Anni 45's yet but noise floor is lower than my Kr 300b's, 101d we replica, eml 45 mesh, Kr 45's.

I don't have a grounding post but I do have an internal grounding post (@ right rear valve socket) that allows me to place a grounded tube cage over noisier tubes like eml mesh 45s.

I assume your ground post is just a chassis ground? You can achieve this by unscrewing a bolt partially and attaching an earth wire to that and a ground post on your mains block (if you have one).

Can I ask - do you use a ground cable from the chassis to mains ground or to your emperor? Do you notice any change to noise floor with and without?

Cheers

 

[Audiophile Bill]

via the new R2R boards ? why no DSD , is not supposed to be it's calling card ??

When they do next shootout at my house, I will insist we do some challenge classics