It's finally here guys. The new ESS 9038PRO. Game changing DAC chip!

[Blizzard]

Actually I'm not interested in it having an LDO necessarily. I need to check its sheets, if it has a bypass I may need to use it.

What are you going to power it with then? Dirty power?

 

[Folsom]

Please... Power is my middle name. It gets complicated from here. But I have preferences in how power is controlled unlike anyone else.

 

[Blizzard]

Please... Power is my middle name. It gets complicated from here. But I have preferences in how power is controlled unlike anyone else.

I don't think you will find a better way to power this chip than with its companion ultra low noise voltage regulator specifically designed to be the ultimate power source for the chip.

 

[Folsom]

Maybe we'll find out some day.

 

[Blizzard]

mike i now have plenty of empty vinyl covers having burned the records, so i have made a mattress for you out of them, its all ready and waiting.
was going to frame them but what with metadata and all these days it seemed a waste of time..

Yeah good idea, thanks. But we should get back on topic because some people might want to discuss the ESS 9038 pro and the ES9311 LDO.

Anything vinyl related should be discussed in the turntable section

 

[Folsom]

Yeah good idea, thanks. But we should get back on topic because some people might want to discuss the ESS 9038 pro and the ES9311 LDO.

I can't find a good paper on the LDO, btw.

 

[Blizzard]

I can't find a good paper on the LDO, btw.

They haven't released the datasheet publicly to everyone yet. But I can assure you that there's no better way in existence to power this DAC. Unless you have better technology than all the top engineers in the world of high end audio is aware of. In that case, I wouldn't even bother with DAC's, just work on power supplies instead, and sell them to OEM's to power their DAC's.

 

[treitz3]

Hello, Blizzard and good afternoon to you. You keep mentioning these "top engineers in the world", "top designers" and "leading industry insiders". To help us put things in proper context, who are these people? I am not trying to confront you. I am asking because it would help to know that these are legitimate people, in the field and they are, in fact, the top engineers.

Again, I am not trying to confront you. I feel that this is a legitimate question. Thank you, sir.

Tom

 

[Blizzard]

Hello, Blizzard and good afternoon to you. You keep mentioning these "top engineers in the world", "top designers" and "leading industry insiders". To help us put things in proper context, who are these people? I am not trying to confront you. I am asking because it would help to know that these are legitimate people, in the field and they are, in fact, the top engineers.

Again, I am not trying to confront you. I feel that this is a legitimate question. Thank you, sir.

Tom

Well I suppose you could consider Dustin Foreman of ESS who created the Sabre line of DAC chips, as well as this LDO we are talking about was created by a member of the same team. These guys can be considered among these "top Engineers". The reason it was created in the first place was because most of the other solutions out there are much more complex and not as good. Considering his chips go into over 50% of the DAC's on the market, and soon to be growing, he might be a decent reference.

Besides him, I suppose every single other DAC Engineer out there would also be aware of the superiority of this LDO. But since it was just unveiled a couple days ago, you won't see it in any products yet.

I will mention Dustin's name because it's publicly available information that he's behind the Sabre DAC chips. But we can leave it up to whoever really want's to know to verify from their favorite engineer if the information I share is accurate. Believe it or not, most of the engineering work for the majority of products out there was farmed out to 3rd parties. I'm not about to give a list of all the engineers I know of, because they are busy enough, and last thing I want is anyone slowing them down

 

[Folsom]

I wouldn't worry about it Tom. Numbers don't equal sound, they just indicate possibilities. ESS is doing a great job, they've pretty well exploded onto the field and taken over the HT theater market, and come around to be a top contender for 2ch.

But even ESS team members will tell you they get dumb founded repeatedly at their subjective tests; to the point where they have to change "oh so perfect" designs. For example it was discussed they had repeated subjective tests showing something changed the preference of a chip configuration not due to the noise floor that was inaudible, but the type of noise in the inaudible floor. So despite all best intentions, "world's best" there's still some mystery, still possibilities of many things.

 

[Blizzard]

I wouldn't worry about it Tom. Numbers don't equal sound, they just indicate possibilities. ESS is doing a great job, they've pretty well exploded onto the field and taken over the HT theater market, and come around to be a top contender for 2ch.

But even ESS team members will tell you they get dumb founded repeatedly at their subjective tests; to the point where they have to change "oh so perfect" designs. For example it was discussed they had repeated subjective tests showing something changed the preference of a chip configuration not due to the noise floor that was inaudible, but the type of noise in the inaudible floor. So despite all best intentions, "world's best" there's still some mystery, still possibilities of many things.

Of course everything will always be improved. It will go like this until the end of mankind. We will never reach perfection. What matters is what's the best way to do it today, until a better way is discovered? And if you discovered a better way, do it that way.

 

[NorthStar]

Hello, Blizzard and good afternoon to you. You keep mentioning these "top engineers in the world", "top designers" and "leading industry insiders". To help us put things in proper context, who are these people? I am not trying to confront you. I am asking because it would help to know that these are legitimate people, in the field and they are, in fact, the top engineers.

Again, I am not trying to confront you. I feel that this is a legitimate question. Thank you, sir.

Tom

Hello Tom, good afternoon to you sir.

? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESS_Technology
?? http://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/42129/Invented-in-Kelowna-Made-in-China

* With AKM DACs it's tougher to get the names of the engineer/designers (just confidentiality...it seems):

? http://circuitcellar.com/cc-blog/next-gen-premium-multichannel-dac-series/
?? https://myl8test.wordpress.com/audio/ak4399-dac/

There are zillion other links, wiki & all, for ESS Sabre DACs, AKM Verita DACs, Wolfson, Burr-Brown (TI), Cirrus Logic, Ring DAC, etc.
The names of the designers for all these companies are not always easy to get, and from say 1982 and up till today...2016.
Some yes, as of today, and yesterday too, but some companies they like to remain confidential when it comes to their scientist engineering/designing team...with particular names.

Kelowna, Canada is a more friendly place, so you can get names with their faces. :b
EMM Labs too, in Alberta, Canada I believe.

I try with AKM and the company remains solid in their identification and non-identification of their personnel.
Perhaps Mike has more underground insight than I.

 

[NorthStar]

Diluted (double post).

 

[Blizzard]

Hello Tom, good afternoon to you sir.

? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESS_Technology
?? http://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/42129/Invented-in-Kelowna-Made-in-China

* With AKM DACs it's tougher to get the names of the engineer/designers (just confidentiality...it seems):

? http://circuitcellar.com/cc-blog/next-gen-premium-multichannel-dac-series/
?? https://myl8test.wordpress.com/audio/ak4399-dac/

There are zillion other links, wiki & all, for ESS Sabre Dacs, AKM DACs, Wolfson, Burr-Brown (TI), Cirrus Logic, Ring Dac, etc.
The names of the designers for all these companies are not always easy to get, and from say 1982 and up till today...2016.
Some yes, as of today, and yesterday too, but some companies they like to remain confidential when it comes to their scientist engineering/designing team...with particular names.

Kelowna, Canada is a more friendly place, so you can get names with their faces. :b
EMM Labs too, in Alberta, Canada I believe.

I try with AKM and the company remains solid in their identification and non-identification of their personnel.
Perhaps Mike has more underground insight than I.

Great post Bob. It's really amazing how a lot of these guys can open up and provide clear and honest answers to your questions if you just simply ask them. When you are on the top, no need to rely on BS to get you by. In fact the very reason they are where they are is due to lack of BS. Go figure

 

[wisnon]

Lemme do some Sabre rattling:
Here is another Englishman (Rob Watts) who takes a very different tack. He has lots of patents outside audio as well.
Many ways to skin a cat. I welcome the ESS advancement, but it is far from Game over (even with the impressive looking LDO). While I hated the Hugo, the Dave is a verrrry different beast.


Audio chip designer – both analogue and digital
Consultant to silicon chip manufacturers
Designer of Chord’s digital audio products
20 years close association with Chord
Inventor of Class Z (DDFA) digital power amp technology
Inventor and owner of:
Pulse Array DAC technology
WTA filter algorithm

Audiophile

 

[Blizzard]

Lemme do some Sabre rattling:
Here is another Englishman (Rob Watts) who takes a very different tack. He has lots of patents outside audio as well.
Many ways to skin a cat. I welcome the ESS advancement, but it is far from Game over. While I hated the Hugo, the Dave is a verrrry different beast.


Audio chip designer – both analogue and digital
Consultant to silicon chip manufacturers
Designer of Chord’s digital audio products
20 years close association with Chord
Inventor of Class Z (DDFA) digital power amp technology
Inventor and owner of:
Pulse Array DAC technology
WTA filter algorithm

Audiophile

Lots of choices out there. We will see if he can overtake ESS from their position of market leaders. I'd say the closest competitor is AKM. The Dave uses the same Xilinx Spartan 6 FPGA that Resonessence used in the Invicta since day 1. It's a very common FPGA used in DAC's, but most don't program it to handle the DAC.

 

[wisnon]

Lots of choices out there. We will see if he can overtake ESS from their position of market leaders. I'd say the closest competitor is AKM.

He is not making chips, he is programmming FPGAs for Chord Dacs. This is not a volume play, rather a 2ch play in high end audio.
What will be interesting will be to pit the best of the 9038 implementations against DAVE or DAVE2.

DAVE means digital to analog in veritas extremis.

 

[Blizzard]

He is not making chips, he is programmming FPGAs for Chord Dacs. This is not a volume play, rather a 2ch play in high end audio.
What will be interesting will be to pit the best of the 9038 implementations against DAVE or DAVE2.

DAVE means digital to analog in veritas extremis.

Yeah will be interesting. But the Spartan 6 isn't exactly a powerhouse. Here's the chip he uses:

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/XC6SLX75-2CSG484C/122-1776-ND/2339892

I guess one of the nice things would be the controller and everything could be handled all in the 1 chip.

 

[wisnon]

From their website:

At its heart lies a new (and in electronics terms, huge) LX75 version of the Spartan 6 Field Programmable Gate Array (FPGA). The FPGA's extraordinary capability enables a number of key sonic benefits including significantly improved timing and the best noise-shaper performance of any known DAC. DAVE's technology delivers music with unmatched reality and musicality, with an unrivalled timing response.

Maximum output voltage: 6 volts RMS
THD and noise at 2.5 volts: RMS 0.000015 %
THD and noise at 2.5 volts: 127dBA Awt (124dBA into 33 ohms)
Dynamic range at -60 dBFS 1kHz -127 dBA A wt
(No measurable noise floor modulation, no a harmonic distortion)
(Analogue distortion characteristic: no distortion for small signals)
Power requirements: mains power 80 volts to 260 volts; AC 20 watts

 

[Blizzard]

From their website:

At its heart lies a new (and in electronics terms, huge) LX75 version of the Spartan 6 Field Programmable Gate Array (FPGA). The FPGA's extraordinary capability enables a number of key sonic benefits including significantly improved timing and the best noise-shaper performance of any known DAC. DAVE's technology delivers music with unmatched reality and musicality, with an unrivalled timing response.

Maximum output voltage: 6 volts RMS
THD and noise at 2.5 volts: RMS 0.000015 %
THD and noise at 2.5 volts: 127dBA Awt (124dBA into 33 ohms)
Dynamic range at -60 dBFS 1kHz -127 dBA A wt
(No measurable noise floor modulation, no a harmonic distortion)
(Analogue distortion characteristic: no distortion for small signals)
Power requirements: mains power 80 volts to 260 volts; AC 20 watts

Nowhere near the on paper specs of the 9038 Pro for dynamic range. But theres many variables that matter. The filter algorithms will be the biggest subjective impact. Once specs get to these levels, noise and distortion are way out of the audible range anyways.