Is high end audio spending an addiction?

[ack]

I opened my spreadsheet, where I keep track of what I have spent on this hobby for hardware, and the list price of the entire current system (exclusive of tax but inclusive of all upgrades/mods I may have done; and with prices as of when the components were purchased) is a hair shy of a staggering number. Are we addicted? Can we convince ourselves we are still "rational" people? Are we restless? Egotistical? Do we have our priorities straight? Is it really worth to you the amount of money you have spent? Where does it end...

 

[LL21]

How much do foodies spend on going out to dinner in a year...or to make a more 'apples to apples' comparison...in 5 years? How much do car buffs spend on 1 car? how about 2? What does someone spend on a few pieces of art?

Some people go on nice vacations every year. For me, i'd rather have a nice system i use every day...hours into the evening and all day/nite on the weekends. I can play music while i work, while we eat dinner, watch movies. That's just me (and probably the majority of us on this forum! )

 

[RBFC]

For those of us with families, the home audio/theater hobby is much preferable to those hobbies that split up the family. I wouldn't take my kids ice climbing, for example, so that's time we can't all spend together. So, when we can all gather in the living room and watch a great movie, it's time and money well-spent. And, yes, many of us have spent a lot of money on this hobby. We're no crazier than those who spend large sums on other pursuits.

Lee

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

I opened my spreadsheet, where I keep track of what I have spent on this hobby for hardware, and the list price of the entire current system (exclusive of tax but inclusive of all upgrades/mods I may have done; and with prices as of when the components were purchased) is a hair shy of a staggering number. Are we addicted? Can we convince ourselves we are still "rational" people? Are we restless? Egotistical? Do we have our priorities straight? Is it really worth to you the amount of money you have spent? Where does it end...

Soul searching, eh? Well, I don't have any idea what you call a "staggering number" Ack, but I would take some comfort in knowing that there are hobbies out there that would probably knock your staggering number to its knees. I once worked with a young guy, nice guy, humble guy who, once I got to know him well, revealed that his dad owned some kind of "manufacturing concern" in the northeast, and his hobby was collecting restored vintage Rolls Royces.

The rest of your individual questions deserve individual responses...

Are we addicted?

Yeah, probably. Everything is an addiction these days isn't it? Surely compulsive shopping qualifies.

Can we convince ourselves we are still "rational" people?

Oh, absolutely. Humans can rationalize almost anything.

Are we restless? Egotistical?

You and your guru will have to answer the ego question. Are you restless? How much buying/selling/trading/"upgrading" have you done in the last 5 years? Can you really justify it as "upgrades?"

Do we have our priorities straight?

Trick question. Is anything not getting funded because of your audio habit? What's it getting prioritized above? For all I know you're a very wealthy man who can spend a staggering sum on audio without re-prioritizing anything. Not even his charitable contributions.

Is it really worth to you the amount of money you have spent?

To get a good answer to this question, you have to very carefully define the "hobby." Is the hobby music? Because I think the odds are very good that most of us here have spent many times what is required for very good, pleasant, musical (heh, heh), even accurate within reasonable limits, reproduction of our recordings. If the hobby is music, I'm afraid the answer is probably no, it's not worth a "staggering sum." If the hobby is researching, understanding, shopping, buying, experiencing, selling, trading, upgrading and talking about audio gear, it might be worth it. But only you know if you get that much pleasure out of the gear. If you have told yourself, or are about to tell me that all of that researching, understanding, shopping, buying, experiencing, selling, trading, upgrading and talking about audio gear, in staggering numbers is about the music... Go up a few lines. Re-read the part where I said humans can rationalize almost anything.

Where does it end

Where you end it.

Tim

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Or, alternately...what Lee said.

Tim

 

[JackD201]

I've seen people spend more on racing pigeons or japanese carp. You only live once, in my opinion if you feel you've got your responsibilities more than covered, knock yourself out.

 

[rockitman]

I'm with you Jack..."You can't take it with you when you go...."

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

I've seen people spend more on racing pigeons or japanese carp. You only live once, in my opinion if you feel you've got your responsibilities more than covered, knock yourself out.

Yeah, just bear in mind asking Jack this question is like asking your crack dealer if you should kick.

Tim

 

[Bill Hart]

The 'addictive' aspects from a behavioral standpoint are: obsessing over the subject, a belief that the 'next' thing is going to be 'nirvana,' a 'buzz' from the pursuit of the 'next thing,' including the research, the 'chatting' about it in place like this, and with others, including those similarly engaged in the pursuit, the 'acquisition,' the moment of experiencing the new equipment, software or other 'thing,' and then the insidious part of the personality that says, yeah, that's good or bad or whatever, but if i just get this next 'thing,' it will be better. And so on.
Not that I speak from experience.
And, where it is counterproductive is if it takes away from life itself, rather than enriching it. But, you could also use the same overall behavior to describe someone in pursuit of a new scientific or medical breakthrough, the writing of a novel, or the making of art. With the same sort of potentially asocial consequences.

 

[ack]

@Tim: Wealthy? Hardly; very few wealthy people lurk in these forums. A self-made, hard worker? Absolutely. But therein lies the rub... are we, hardworkers, perhaps trying to reward ourselves, too much? Even if everything else is getting funded, as you said, it's still money not invested... Or is it...

 

[Bill Hart]

Soul searching, eh? Well, I don't have any idea what you call a "staggering number" Ack, but I would take some comfort in knowing that there are hobbies out there that would probably knock your staggering number to its knees. I once worked with a young guy, nice guy, humble guy who, once I got to know him well, revealed that his dad owned some kind of "manufacturing concern" in the northeast, and his hobby was collecting restored vintage Rolls Royces.

The rest of your individual questions deserve individual responses...

Yeah, probably. Everything is an addiction these days isn't it? Surely compulsive shopping qualifies.

Oh, absolutely. Humans can rationalize almost anything.

You and your guru will have to answer the ego question. Are you restless? How much buying/selling/trading/"upgrading" have you done in the last 5 years? Can you really justify it as "upgrades?"

Trick question. Is anything not getting funded because of your audio habit? What's it getting prioritized above? For all I know you're a very wealthy man who can spend a staggering sum on audio without re-prioritizing anything. Not even his charitable contributions.

To get a good answer to this question, you have to very carefully define the "hobby." Is the hobby music? Because I think the odds are very good that most of us here have spent many times what is required for very good, pleasant, musical (heh, heh), even accurate within reasonable limits, reproduction of our recordings. If the hobby is music, I'm afraid the answer is probably no, it's not worth a "staggering sum." If the hobby is researching, understanding, shopping, buying, experiencing, selling, trading, upgrading and talking about audio gear, it might be worth it. But only you know if you get that much pleasure out of the gear. If you have told yourself, or are about to tell me that all of that researching, understanding, shopping, buying, experiencing, selling, trading, upgrading and talking about audio gear, in staggering numbers is about the music... Go up a few lines. Re-read the part where I said humans can rationalize almost anything.

Where you end it.

Tim

We are all gearheads to some degree or we wouldn't be here.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

@Tim: Wealthy? Hardly; very few wealthy people lurk in these forums. A self-made, hard worker? Absolutely. But therein lies the rub... are we, hardworkers, perhaps trying to reward ourselves, too much? Even if everything else is getting funded, as you said, it's still money not invested... Or is it...

Nobody seems to think they're wealthy, especially if they worked for it. Is that staggering figure approaching six figures? For two channel audio? And you're not slowly paying off a second mortgage to purchase it? By the standards of the overwhelming majority of Americans, that's wealthy. By world standards, it's staggering wealth. It's all relative.

Tim

 

[Bill Hart]

I've seen people spend more on racing pigeons or japanese carp. You only live once, in my opinion if you feel you've got your responsibilities more than covered, knock yourself out.

Racing carp are even more expensive.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

We are all gearheads to some degree or we wouldn't be here.

Yes, we are.

Tim

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Racing carp are even more expensive.

I tried to race a carp once. Couldn't keep my car running in the pond.

Tim

 

[Gregadd]

Bill Cosby-middle class means you work for your money. rich means your money works for you.

 

[jazdoc]

From the American Society of Addiction Medicine:

Public Policy Statement: Definition of Addiction

"Addiction is a primary, chronic disease of brain reward, motivation, memory and related circuitry. Dysfunction in these circuits leads to characteristic biological, psychological, social and spiritual manifestations. This is reflected in an individual pathologically pursuing reward and/or relief by substance use and other behaviors.

Addiction is characterized by inability to consistently abstain, impairment in behavioral control, craving, diminished recognition of significant problems with one’s behaviors and interpersonal relationships, and a dysfunctional emotional response. Like other chronic diseases, addiction often involves cycles of relapse and remission. Without treatment or engagement in recovery activities, addiction is progressive and can result in disability or premature death."

By these criterion, I doubt any of us truly has an 'addiction'. Well, OK, I crave vinyl, but other than THAT...

I did once overhear a conversation that my wife was having with members of her book club that went something like "I always know where he is, he's not in bar or chasing other women and the kids like to hang out with him when he's listening to music." I can't imagine going through life without being passionate about my family, profession or my hobby. Through my passion (obsession) for music and sound, I have shared wonderful times with my family, supported deserving (and some undeserving) artists and craftsman and cultivated some wonderful friends. Once you have taken care of your financial and personal responsibilities to your family and yourself (i.e. parenting, saving for higher education, retirement, etc), how you choose to spend your money is your business.

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

At The risk of being accused of pedantry; I believe our kind of pursuit for the best is compulsive, not addictive.. We , audiophiles, are a compulsive bunch. Addicted? Hardly, in my experience if we can't afford something , we drool, dream and move on to something else, less dear. The addict OTOH must have his/her fix', he/she is capable of sacrificing anything to satisfy his/her craving.. I haven't met such behavior in an audiophile.
We do however spend ungodly amount of money though on at best small increments and too often side-ways moves ... ANd in many a system priorities are not clear ... For example, substantial amount of currency for the minuscule ( nonexistent ?) changes brought by cables while leaving the wild swing introduced by the listening rooms un-addressed ... By any definition an irrational behavior, if that is what we are discussing about...

 

[Bill Hart]

From the American Society of Addiction Medicine:

Public Policy Statement: Definition of Addiction

"Addiction is a primary, chronic disease of brain reward, motivation, memory and related circuitry. Dysfunction in these circuits leads to characteristic biological, psychological, social and spiritual manifestations. This is reflected in an individual pathologically pursuing reward and/or relief by substance use and other behaviors.

Addiction is characterized by inability to consistently abstain, impairment in behavioral control, craving, diminished recognition of significant problems with one’s behaviors and interpersonal relationships, and a dysfunctional emotional response. Like other chronic diseases, addiction often involves cycles of relapse and remission. Without treatment or engagement in recovery activities, addiction is progressive and can result in disability or premature death."

By these criterion, I doubt any of us truly has an 'addiction'. Well, OK, I crave vinyl, but other than THAT...

I did once overhear a conversation that my wife was having with members of her book club that went something like "I always know where he is, he's not in bar or chasing other women and the kids like to hang out with him when he's listening to music." I can't imagine going through life without being passionate about my family, profession or my hobby. Through my passion (obsession) for music and sound, I have shared wonderful time with my family, supported deserving (and some undeserving) artists and craftsman and cultivated some wonderful friends. Once you have taken care of your financial and personal responsibilities to your family and yourself (i.e. parenting, saving for higher education, retirement, etc), how you choose to spend your money is your business.

Doc, my earlier post addressed many of the same characteristics from a behavioral standpoint. Perhaps the difference, from a strict medical definition, is that a shopping or gambling addition does not necessarily involve the ingestion of substances, like alcohol or drugs, or risky behavior like a 'sexual addiction,' that, according to the cited definition, can result 'in disability or death,' but if for example, someone spends more than they can afford, it is self-destructive, and if they can't stop (without intervention of some sort), it is addictive behavior in a non-medical sense, no? I think some of the same chemical 'rewards' to the brain are going on.

 

[Bill Hart]

Hi

At The risk of being accused of pedantry; I believe our kind of pursuit for the best is compulsive, not addictive.. We , audiophiles, are a compulsive bunch. Addicted? Hardly, in my experience if we can't afford something , we drool, dream and move on to something else, less dear. The addict OTOH must have his/her fix', he/she is capable of sacrificing anything to satisfy his/her craving.. I haven't met such behavior in an audiophile.
We do however spend ungodly amount of money though on at best small increments and too often side-ways moves ... ANd in many a system priorities are not clear ... For example, substantial amount of currency for the minuscule ( nonexistent ?) changes brought by cables while leaving the wild swing introduced by the listening rooms un-addressed ... By any definition an irrational behavior, if that is what we are discussing about...

I'm not sure all addiction is typified by the fix-seeking junkie we often associate with drug addiction. One question no addict will truthfully be able to answer is whether they could just stop 'cold' without help. Perhaps that's not addiction in a clinical sense, which is why, as someone else said, all kinds of behaviors, from gambling, to sex, to shopping to websurfing, are characterized as addictions in a loose sense. I doubt anyone has set up a 12 step program for audio geeks, but we've certainly joked about it, haven't we?