Introduction

[Steve Williams]

I was a long time Soundex customer with David Santerian helping me with three Wilson installations. Who can forget Frank the head man there. He died many years ago

 

[TitaniumTroy]

Glad to see you here Greg, I tried recently to start a thread about the GT Audio 2.5s over at the Planer Asylum with not much effect. http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/etv.mpl?forum=mug Though I did read some postive posts over at the Audio Circle about the 2.0 version, that model had 8" woofers I believe. I had a question about the 2.5's midrange which is 8.5" wide, being so wide doesn't that cause some beaming in the higher midrange? I am interested in your speaker as I am hardcore planer fan and own Magnepan 3.6s. How do the 2.5's do against Magnepan 20.7's I know different price point but thought I would ask anyway. Thanks,

Troy

 

[GT Audio Works]

Glad to see you here Greg, I tried recently to start a thread about the GT Audio 2.5s over at the Planer Asylum with not much effect. http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/etv.mpl?forum=mug Though I did read some postive posts over at the Audio Circle about the 2.0 version, that model had 8" woofers I believe. I had a question about the 2.5's midrange which is 8.5" wide, being so wide doesn't that cause some beaming in the higher midrange? I am interested in your speaker as I am hardcore planer fan and own Magnepan 3.6s. How do the 2.5's do against Magnepan 20.7's I know different price point but thought I would ask anyway. Thanks,

Troy

Hi Troy,
The 2.5 uses powered twin 10" woofers in a sealed enclosure, the planar and ribbon are powered by the customers amp.
The model 2 had a powered 8" sub in a vented enclosure, it also had passive twin 8" mid bass units which were part of a 3 way system including a planar and ribbon driver.
The new GTA 2.5 is an easier load for your amp, and the twin powered 10" woofers do a better job integrating with the planar driver than the 8" powered sub and twin 8" mid bass units of the GTA2.

Regarding the 8.5" width of the planar panel, this is the overall dimension, the actual driven area of the planar diaphragm is 7", but your question is still a valid one.
Even though I do not use electrical filters to achieve a desired driver pass band. I do use mechanical means to roll off the upper range, damp resonances and blend the drivers output with the ribbon tweeter.
While the best listening position is in the sweet spot, off axis is still very good.
Nothing as extreme as Sanders electrostatic who designs for on axis listening experience, he will tell you beaming is not a bad thing as it limits room interactions.

As far as Maggie 20.7's I have heard them and find them to be fine speakers, I have enjoyed owning a couple of Maggie models myself.
I believe my GTA 2.5's offers a smaller footprint, better W.A.F. more dynamic bass, higher efficiency , ability to resolve dynamic contrast even at low listening levels, and lower cost are among its attributes.

Regards,
Greg

 

[TitaniumTroy]

Greg, thanks for the fast reply. Any chance you might demo at AXPONA 2016 in Chicago, IL? That or i'll have to make the trip to NJ, have you heard Graz's refurbished Apogee speakers, I have not and have heard various reports vs Maggie's. I liked the bass from Sanders ESL speakers but that asymetrical room layout he likes, thru off the imaging for me? The imaging was much better in the Kingsound ESL room but the dynamics and bass were limited IMHO, tough get it all in the planer world.

 

[GT Audio Works]

Greg, thanks for the fast reply. Any chance you might demo at AXPONA 2016 in Chicago, IL? That or i'll have to make the trip to NJ, have you heard Graz's refurbished Apogee speakers, I have not and have heard various reports vs Maggie's. I liked the bass from Sanders ESL speakers but that asymetrical room layout he likes, thru off the imaging for me? The imaging was much better in the Kingsound ESL room but the dynamics and bass were limited IMHO, tough get it all in the planer world.

I have not made plans to exhibit at Chicago, up to now I have only exhibited on the east coast..NYC and the Capital Audio Fest in the DC area.
I have not heard the Graz Apogees, but I did enjoy an evening listening to a well tweaked pair of Infinity RS2b speakers with Graz Emim drivers in a very well set up system.

I feel your pain, having owned various ESL's and planar magnetic speakers, I liked things about each, but eventually sold them, wanting it all.
This is what led me (and most speaker builders I imagine) to design their own.

 

[TitaniumTroy]

Greg, I believe where the 10" sealed woofers take over is at 80hz. That is pretty low in frequency in comparison with other hybrid speakers. Which I think is a good thing, keeping as much of the planer sound as you can. Until you reach the range where they start lack impact and can make a smooth transition. Any thoughts on this and any thing else you can elaborate on that you did to make a seamless handoff to the dynamic woofers? What are the woofers made out of any way, aluminum?

 

[GT Audio Works]

Greg, I believe where the 10" sealed woofers take over is at 80hz. That is pretty low in frequency in comparison with other hybrid speakers. Which I think is a good thing, keeping as much of the planer sound as you can. Until you reach the range where they start lack impact and can make a smooth transition. Any thoughts on this and any thing else you can elaborate on that you did to make a seamless handoff to the dynamic woofers? What are the woofers made out of any way, aluminum?

Troy,
The 400 watt Hypex subwoofer amp is user adjustable for gain, phase, xover freq. with a max upper range of 120hz, bass Eq of 0- 6db within the range 20-50hz.
The planar driver has usable output down to 60 hz.
The best setting will require experimentation and depend on the room and the system.

I believe the direct connection of the planar driver to the driving amp without any crossover contributes to the seamless hand off to the sub woofers.

The sub woofer cones are made of Nomex.

Greg

 

[TitaniumTroy]

Greg, do you have any pics of the various drivers you could post, while not giving away any trade secrets? What type of amps go well with the 2.5s and how much power? Also what is your set up routine once you get the speakers in a customers home?

 

[GT Audio Works]

Greg, do you have any pics of the various drivers you could post, while not giving away any trade secrets? What type of amps go well with the 2.5s and how much power? Also what is your set up routine once you get the speakers in a customers home?

I thought I had saved pics, but my computer skills are poor at best. I will have to look around to see where those files may be.

At 90 db and a stable 4 ohm load, they are easy to drive with any moderately powered amp, tube or S/S.
I use 100 wpc S/S monos, http://www.paradoxpulse.com/our-products
They have worked well with amps from 35wpc to 200wpc. If you like to listen to orchestral crescendos at full tilt, I would recommend at least 100wpc.

I always inquire as to weather or not the system inverts phase as many pre amps do.
It surprises me how many people don't consider absolute phase when setting up a system.

Setup requirements are nothing special, I like 7 or 8 feet from center to center of the speakers and at least that much or more to my listening chair.
I like the speakers distance from the wall to be a 3rd or 5th or 7th of the room length.
I want the speakers toed in directly facing me. To adjust for proper toe in, I use a laser pointer mounted to a straight edge to place against the speaker, which allows precise alignment to a center point on the back of my listening chair where my head rests.

Once the speakers are playing music, I have a few go to disks to dial in the subs, to achieve the proper balance.

Greg

 

[TitaniumTroy]

Say Greg, do you have any frequency response charts of the 2.5's?

 

[GT Audio Works]

Say Greg, do you have any frequency response charts of the 2.5's?

Troy,
While measurements are a part of the design process.
It is my opinion, publishing such measurements do nothing to relate any useful information as to the listening experience.

Consider measuring the horsepower and torque curves of a sports car on a chassis dynamometer.
Other than giving you the raw numbers to say, yes my car develops X amount of power at X rpm.
This tells one nothing of the experience of driving down a country road on a beautiful day.

Greg

 

[marty]

Must be Soundex. Long out of business. They had a store in Berwyn as well which was run by Terry Menacker now of Overture.

Wow, talk about memory lane. Soundex in Willow Grove was a Philadelphia institution and a veritable mecca of high end gear for decades. What I loved about Soundex, other than their competitive pricing (they blew more stuff out the back door than the front door) was how it was a magnet for local audiophiles who would just hang out there on Saturdays talking about audio, aspiring out loud about stuff most of us couldn't afford, and learning a lot from each other. It was a true "happening" in the decade of the 80's and management loved it because it just brought in a lot of traffic. in return we got to listen and play with the great products of that era. Most of us might eventually leave with a few LPs as a way of saying thanks for letting us hang out. We watched the Santerian kids grow up and learn the business and they were always good to us in return as customers. The only down side was that Frank Betz, their long time manager who always looked like he was recovering from a hangover the night before, was a cigar smoker and there wasn't a single product I ever bought from that place that didn't reek of cigars for months. But what a glorious place it was in their heyday, and what a glorious time as well. You had to be there to truly experience the comaraderie that the "regulars" had for each other, even though most of us couldn't really afford the "good stuff". It was when the "high end" was REALLY the "high end". But sadly, time has passed it by. However it was as important to my audio education as college and medical school was to my professional education. Except that it was a lot more fun! Seriously.

 

[Steve Williams]

Sadly Frank Betz passed away several years ago

 

[Steve Williams]

I bought 3 different Wilson speakers from David and Frank at Soundex.

 

[GT Audio Works]

Wow, talk about memory lane. Soundex in Willow Grove was a Philadelphia institution and a veritable mecca of high end gear for decades. What I loved about Soundex, other than their competitive pricing (they blew more stuff out the back door than the front door) was how it was a magnet for local audiophiles who would just hang out there on Saturdays talking about audio, aspiring out loud about stuff most of us couldn't afford, and learning a lot from each other. It was a true "happening" in the decade of the 80's and management loved it because it just brought in a lot of traffic. in return we got to listen and play with the great products of that era. Most of us might eventually leave with a few LPs as a way of saying thanks for letting us hang out. We watched the Santerian kids grow up and learn the business and they were always good to us in return as customers. The only down side was that Frank Betz, their long time manager who always looked like he was recovering from a hangover the night before, was a cigar smoker and there wasn't a single product I ever bought from that place that didn't reek of cigars for months. But what a glorious place it was in their heyday, and what a glorious time as well. You had to be there to truly experience the comaraderie that the "regulars" had for each other, even though most of us couldn't really afford the "good stuff". It was when the "high end" was REALLY the "high end". But sadly, time has passed it by. However it was as important to my audio education as college and medical school was to my professional education. Except that it was a lot more fun! Seriously.

Sounds like it was a great place.
I only was there once, to buy and trade in some gear, on which, I got a great deal as I recall.
At the time I lived closer to the NYC stores, where I did my drooling over speakers and such.
Though I never had the memorable experiences you describe, I think I was mostly considered a pain in the ass, who didn't buy much.

Greg