Inductors/resistors/capacitors. Which ones for the preferred DIY speaker and why?

[garylkoh]

Hello, Gary. Which one would, in your experience, offer a better end result? I'm expecting you to say that it is situation and circuit dependent but I thought that it wouldn't hurt to ask. I'll be honest with you, we haven't opened up the speakers yet to see what we are dealing with so I don't even know if the Tyler's even have one like this but I'd like to be prepared when and if the time comes.

Tom

Unfortunately, it is.... dependent on the circuit, and the drivers being used. But it looks like you've got a good start with Clarity, Dueland and Mills parts. Instead of the Madisound inductors, you might want to try the Erse "Perfect Lay" which I like very much.

 

[microstrip]

Tom,
An important aspect - avoid assembling the inductors in parallel positions if they are close-by. They axes should be perpendicular to avoid mutual coupling. A well know famous B&W of the 80's had this problem in their complex crossover and people were astonished with the effect of just re-orientating the coils. I would be careful about firmly coupling the crossovers to walls or very heavy structures - there is not such think as a perfect wall, they will just resonate at other frequencies, perhaps not easily felt, but perhaps more harmful in sound/electrical terms.

I have little practical experience in component swapping, but as it seems you are also a newcomer to this area, I would advise to stick with only one brand of each type of components for this first project. Coherency is one the hardest, but one the mostly needed feature in sound reproduction - something that sometimes separates mechanical reproduction from a great sound. And mixing components with different signatures should be left to the experts with long experience. Usually I say all IMHO, this time I should say, all my humble feelings, nothing else!

 

[treitz3]

Thank you for your answer, Gary. Much appreciated and actually incorporated. Thank you as well, microstrip. Duly noted. The real estate within the enclosure has been thought about, exactly for the reasons aforementioned by you. As for the wall, I'm quickly swaying away from that but thank you for your thoughts. Just an FYI, yes, I actually am a newcomer to this area as I'm sure many of you can tell.

Seen below is a better picture of the external crossover enclosure I was referring too. This should show the swirl pattern I was talking about in better detail.



After a 3 hour long conversation last night, we have tweaked the original plans [again, without even looking within the speakers to see what we are actually looking at]. Right now, here are the preliminary plans and I will reserve the right to change plans once again at a moments notice.

Tweeter Network -
Clarity Cap MR
Clarity Cap ESA 250v Shunt
Jantzen or ERSE perfect lay (DCR match)

Midbass Network -
Clarity Cap ESA 630v
Clarity Cap ESA 250v
Stock which should be a low DCR film inductor

Woofer Network -
Clarity Cap ESA 250v
ERSE Perfect Lay Air Core (if DCR is a match, will have to run test)

Internal Wiring -
Supra Rondo 13 awg x 2, directly soldered - no connectors

Wiring from speaker to crossover
One NL4 for the tweeter/midbass
One NL2 for the bass drivers
Same connections on the enclosure, this will make it where there is only one way to hook up the speaker as a NL2 will not fit in a NL4 panel mount.
Supra Rondo 13 awg x 4 for the umbilical wire

External enclosure will feature a completely isolated platform for the components, as seen in previous photos [not shown here] with all of the wiring underneath.
Rubber isolation feet for the enclosure to start with until I decide on the mounting/isolation design or implementation and Ribbon Mahogany sides. Yeah!!!

Any suggestions or comments are more than welcome and once again, I'd like to thank those who have responded thus far. I really can't remember having so much fun along my audio journey before and I'm excited and really looking forward to eventually hearing the end results as to what hits my ears with this project. ? Let the good times Roll ?

Tom

 

[Snoop65]

I have no advice to offer Tom just good luck and I hope it is a success!

 

[treitz3]

Hello, gentlemen. First off, thanks Snoop65 for the kind words.

I have ran across a question that seems to have some variables to it and I'd like some advice if anybody who may have experience in this matter would be kind enough to offer some. It involves shunt circuits. The question would be...

How important would using high quality capacitor on a shunt circuit be to the end result as to what hits your ears?

We are currently thinking that the capacitor choices would be the Clarity cap MR or the Clarity cap ESA for the 2 shunt circuits. They both are of quality but exactly how much quality should be considered on a shunt circuit is the question. Some say using a MR is complete overkill while others say that if you are going to want the best, use the best. The price difference along with the size difference [and the accommodations thereof] is what I would consider "considerable", so I do not take this question lightly. The end result that hits my ears is my only concern and I'm wondering if going with the MR instead of the ESA would bring a change worth considering.

I'll have to update our current plans when I get back from a meeting later tonight. Some things have changed on the list and the perfect lay inductors across the board is one of them, that is, if the DCR matches on all networks. The speakers are currently in the recording studio being recorded in stock form. Not only that, I have consulted with a professional woodworker and the exterior will be refinished as well as multiple layers of lacquer correctly applied for further protection and the stain and finish will be the same on both the sides of the external crossover network as well as the speakers them self. The grills will also be converted to a magnet mount system and we are currently looking at new spikes for both the plinths and the speakers. This will end up being a complete and total refurbish/upgrade from the ground up.

Tom

 

[DonH50]

I am ambivalent on the whole supercap issue (a supercap means something else to me, i.e. high-value) and have no experience with the caps in question so can't comment directly on your choices or their audibility.

As far as shunt operation, it is true that presumably over most of the used BW the shunt cap is passing signal to ground and thus more-or-less out of the signal picture (especially since it would be usually be used in conjunction with a series L) but the cap does modulate the signal around the crossover point. So, to say it is out of the signal path is not true, unless a power supply cap (and really not even then, depends on PSRR).

 

[microstrip]

Hello, gentlemen. First off, thanks Snoop65 for the kind words.

I have ran across a question that seems to have some variables to it and I'd like some advice if anybody who may have experience in this matter would be kind enough to offer some. It involves shunt circuits. The question would be...

How important would using high quality capacitor on a shunt circuit be to the end result as to what hits your ears?

(...)

Tom,

Once you are in the supercap league, shunt is as important as a series element - some people will even tell you it is more important than the series element. The shunt capacitor, as it helps bypassing undesirable signals "reacts" and applies this "reaction" directly in the speaker unit.

Sorry to bring you bad news!

 

[Robh3606]

We are currently thinking that the capacitor choices would be the Clarity cap MR or the Clarity cap ESA for the 2 shunt circuits.

What's already in there?? Or just match the series caps. Me I Charge Couple my caps in my networks. Get's expensive though and takes quite a bit of space.

Rob

 

[JackD201]

Hi Tom,

Are you having someone design an XO for you or are you doing this yourself. Just asking because what I'll be asking may be too much if you're having someone design one for you.

I was just wondering if you've run SPICE simulations. If you did, it would be great if you could share them.

 

[garylkoh]

I might be wrong, but I think that Tom's modifying an existing pair of loudspeakers. Same crossover design and values but different parts.

IMHO, by the time you're picking different brands/series within the brand of capacitors in shunt/series positions, it's all down to the ear. Measurements will get you to the point where the speakers will have a nicely flat frequency response and phase response. You can make slight adjustments in values of the capacitors which you can easily measure on the output of the speakers, but which the ear (my ears anyway) are unable to ascertain. Be careful though, that it's really a change in value as the +/- 20% error in caps can easily swamp going from 4.7uF to 5.0uF.

Nevertheless, unwinding/winding inductors can make a very small difference in inductance that you can measure at the inductor, not be able to easily measure at the FR and PR of the speaker, but the ear can quite easily hear the difference.

I was talking to BruceB a couple of weeks ago where he was sharing with me about a speaker he auditioned that was made up of the very best premium parts and sounded far, far worse than another pair that seemed to have been made of much cheaper off-the-shelf components. That may be a point of interest for Tom. It's not necessarily the more expensive part will sound better in any particular position.

 

[JackD201]

It's a lot like cooking then.