In search of a lasting vinyl compromise

[Bertrand D]

Dear friends,

After years without vinyl (my last TT was a pair of Technics SL1200Mk2 used with a mixing table some 30 years ago) I am keen to return to vinyl and re-build a record collection.

To the extent possible, I would like this vinyl system to be a long-lasting one and I am therefore willing to go straight to a good but still reasonable equipment (around 20k USD).

I have in mind the following turntables, that I would like to use with a DS Audio cartridge and phono preamp (probably a DS-003):

- Technics SL1000R
- Technics SP10R (if better that a SL1000R but then with which plinth (the OMA would probably be too expensive and not really my taste in terms of esthetics) and with which arm (a Thales or a Kuzma)?
- Grand Prix Audio Parabolica (with a Thales or Kuzma arm?)
- SME 12A
- Thales compact or slim with simplicity or easy tonearm
- VPI HW-40 Direct Drive
- Kuzma StabiM with 4Point tonearm

I will listen to all type of music but probably predominantly pop, rock, soul.

Your guidance will be much appreciated as I will not be able to listen (and even less compare) all of the above turntables before making a decision.

Many thanks in advance.

Bertrand

 

[XV-1]

My 2 cents.

Technics SP10R with Acoustand SP10R plinth and Thales Simplicity II tonearm.

Should last longer than you

 

[bazelio]

Feel free to ask me questions about the Stabi M with 4 point. Happy long term owner. I've heard most of the Technics and the SME.

 

[djsina2]

A dealer told me today the SP-10R (assume SL-1000R also) is a year wait right now.

 

[Gary J]

Bazelio how does the Kuzma differ from Technics tables on sound quality? and is the Stabi R a big drop in quality from the Stabi M you have?

 

[Solypsa]

Nice selections. I'm a direct drive guy ( not counting the better end game belt-drives ) so would lean to the Technics or Gran Prix from the options on your list.

Btw your profile shows that you use the Kii control digital preamp. Have you tested how good analog sounds via its 'analog input' AD convertors? Just curious...

 

[tima]

- Grand Prix Audio Parabolica (with a Thales or Kuzma arm?)

I have not heard the Thales but know the Kuzma 4Point will work well with the Parabolica which is near the performance of the GPA Monaco.

 

[Andrew S.]

Not that I am contemplating getting back into vinyl - but this is a thread I am taking note of. 20k seems a very good sweet spot to aim for.

Great suggestions, IMHO.

FWIW - I've heard and really liked a Brinkman Bardo - not overly expensive and seems well built. Arm depends abit what cartridge you want to use I suppose - but that's for the vinyl guys to answer to.

 

[tima]

Btw, Thom Mackris (Galibier) sent me a note that all Kuzma tonearm prices are going up on August 1st.

 

[Bertrand D]

My 2 cents.

Technics SP10R with Acoustand SP10R plinth and Thales Simplicity II tonearm.

Should last longer than you

Dear XV-1, Bazelio, Djsina2, Gary, Solypsa, Tima and Andrew,

Many thanks for your very rapid feedback, comments and recommendations. Much appreciated and very useful.

@XV-1, do you consider that the Acoustand SP10R plinth (the price of which seems very low, i.e. GBP 199) is of the same quality or possibly higher quality that the SL1000R plinth? I take it that you consider the Thales Simplicity II as being a more musical tonearm than the SL1000R standard one.

@bazelio, you seem to be very happy with your Stabi M with 4 point. Have you heard the SL1000R/SP10R or SME 12A or other models from these two manufacturers and, if so, would you still buy a Stabi M with 4 point if you were on the market in this price range? I saw the question posed by Gary and will be interested to read your response.

If I was to go for a Technics SP10R with Acoustand SP10R plinth. Would you have a view between a Thales Simplicity II tonearm or a Kuzma 4 point?

@djsina2, I hope that there is not such a long waiting time for the Technics if I decide to buy one and am hoping that the French importer will have some stock.

@Andrew, I have indeed heard or read very positive things regarding Brinkman and AMG turntables. I did not mention them not to make my shortlist too long but this could be a mistake.

@Solypsa, I do use the Kii Control digital preamp and I am very satisfied with the quality level of the Kii Three/Kii control combination in an all digital system. I believe that at this price point (approx. USD 15.000) it is an outstanding and hard to beat combination. The Kii Three (active loudspeakers) do sound very good when you are feeding them via their XLR analog inputs. To do so, you must use cables between your phono preamp and the Kii Three and then control the volume via the Kii Control. You can very clearly hear the difference between a digital and a vinyl source when doing so. With that setup, the analog signal is converted into digital at loudspeaker level. Converting analog into digital, even at the last stage (loudspeaker), can certainly be perceived as a crime by analog purists but this is what Goldmund (who are also serious about vinyl) does since more than 15 years as they consider that cables deteriorate the signal and that it is preferable to convert an analog signal early in digital (e.g. at preamp level) than conveying an analog signal all the way up to the loudspeakers.

Many thanks again.

All the best,

Bertrand

 

[XV-1]

Dear XV-1, Bazelio, Djsina2, Gary, Solypsa, Tima and Andrew,

Many thanks for your very rapid feedback, comments and recommendations. Much appreciated and very useful.

@XV-1, do you consider that the Acoustand SP10R plinth (the price of which seems very low, i.e. GBP 199) is of the same quality or possibly higher quality that the SL1000R plinth? I take it that you consider the Thales Simplicity II as being a more musical tonearm than the SL1000R

If I was to go for a Technics SP10R with Acoustand SP10R plinth. Would you have a view between a Thales Simplicity II tonearm or a Kuzma 4 point

Bertrand

Hi Bertrand

The Acoustand SP10R plinth is £2399. Additional arm board is £199.

Yes, both Thales and Kuzma tonearms are a lot better than the Technics arm.

Or get both arms

Regards

 

[Bertrand D]

Hi XV-1,

Thank you for this clarification. Well noted,

Best regards,

Bertrand

 

[Solypsa]

Thanks for the clarification on how the Kii Control works with analog. I am not against the AD conversion per se...only that it needs to be done well

 

[Andrew S.]

Hi Bertrand

The Acoustand SP10R plinth is £2399. Additional arm board is £199.

Yes, both Thales and Kuzma tonearms are a lot better than the Technics arm.

Or get both arms

Regards

Shane are you preferring your SP10R these days? Or is it like choosing a favourite child?

 

[XV-1]

Shane are you preferring your SP10R these days? Or is it like choosing a favourite child?

Andrew

SP10 mk3. don't have the R. would luv to and compare the R to my mk3. My mk3 has the best cartridge, so it gets the most play. But I have been playing the P3 for the last week and loving it, so yea - hard to choose between each child .

 

[mtemur]

both technics sp10r and kuzma 4point are excellent choices. I’m very familiar with thales arms and they’re ok too. but I wouldn’t buy any of those and stay away any analog source if I would be keeping kii three. it doesn’t sound right to me to add an approximately 20000usd worth of analog front end to a 15000usd system. I would spend that budget to improve already over-achieving kii three setup.

converting analog signal to digital then to analog again is like ordering specialty and asking for salt and pepper in a 3-star michelin restaurant. there is nothing wrong with it but it’s not right either.

 

[Bertrand D]

both technics sp10r and kuzma 4point are excellent choices. I’m very familiar with thales arms and they’re ok too. but I wouldn’t buy any of those and stay away any analog source if I would be keeping kii three. it doesn’t sound right to me to add an approximately 20000usd worth of analog front end to a 15000usd system. I would spend that budget to improve already over-achieving kii three setup.

converting analog signal to digital then to analog again is like ordering specialty and asking for salt and pepper in a 3-star michelin restaurant. there is nothing wrong with it but it’s not right either.

Point taken. Thanks mtmur. One important point that I did not mention is that I my intention is to use this analog source primarily with my analog integrated amplifier (currently Shiit Jotunheim R) and Raal-Requisite SR1a ribbon headphones and not with the Kii Three.
When you mention that Kuzma 4point is an excellent choice and Thales arms are ok too, do you believe that the Kuzma 4point is a more musical arm?

 

[mtemur]

do you believe that the Kuzma 4point is a more musical arm?

kuzma 4point is a dynamic, very well balanced and very high performer considering it’s price.

 

[bazelio]

Bazelio how does the Kuzma differ from Technics tables on sound quality? and is the Stabi R a big drop in quality from the Stabi M you have?

Gary, I've not heard the Stabi R in a way that I could evaluate it against the Stabi M. What I did find is that the Stabi R was a more resolving table than the AF 3P. For what that's worth.

The Stabi R could represent a lot of bang for the buck. As far as the M vs Technics tables, I happen to prefer the M. In general, the Technics tables I've heard tend to be very fast start/stop in terms of transients and a bit dry sounding. They draw my attention to leading edges and can sound very exciting and energetic. The M for me is the sweet spot of the Kuzma line. It's just so balanced sounding and free from artifice. A very neutral platform around which to build out a system.

 

[Gary J]

Bazelio, Stabi R more resolving then the AF 3P? what a statement and I am not doubting you and if that is right that makes the Stabi R a real steal because it is over 4 times cheeper then the AF 3P table. I was at a dealers shop and he had a AF 5 and when he turnted it on it took 30 seconds to come up to speed but I didnt have time to listen to it. I was thinking of buying a Stabi R with a 4 point 11 inch arm and putting it on a HRS M3Xx2 isolation base. I hear Kuzma tables have more depth, layering and more spacious then most Technics tables and from all the reviews I have read and my own listening to my SL-1000R table with its stock arm that maybe be the case. I just do not like a analytical sound, its like listening to digital. I like meat on the bones with lots of body and my SL-1000R table is kind of lean on lower base notes and lacks the power and authority in the lower registers unlike other tables I have had in the past. Although I have never listened to a Kuzma table I have heard nothing but good things about them and the owner Franc is a joy to talk to.