I'm Not Gonna Tell How Great My MicroRendu plus Sonore Signature Power Supply Sounds!

[opus112]

This point

Which point? There's nothing I'm seeing in the text you quoted which supports your claim. What am I missing?

Remember you're doing the claiming so under scientific practice its for you to support your claim. Quoting two whole paragraphs looks like obfuscation when all you needed to do is cite where he's claimed what you've said he's claimed.

 

[Geardaddy]

That's exactly what I see happening here.

Yet, it's funny how many can't seem to see through all this.

There is no logical fallacy here and nothing to see or really think through. Its an academic exercise and one party is mute. That is fine and that is one form of an answer, but why waste the time delineating your measurement equipment alluding to future developments, measurement schemes, etc. A lot of people want to hear from him not to to him but to see him shine forth. All the passive aggressive posturing is silly and diversionary

 

[opus112]

All the passive aggressive posturing is silly and diversionary

Indeed, I agree its diversionary. So why do you engage in it if that's your view of it? Curious minds wish to understand.

 

[opus112]

Educate me if you feel you must.

Educators worth their salt look for evidence of curiosity before attempting to educate. If you're seeking for education from a compulsive educator then I wish you good luck!

 

[jkeny]

http://www.microrendu.sonore.us



This point has been splashed around in multiple forums including Computeraudiophile, etc, etc.

And can you highlight where it says it reduces electrical noise floor in a USB DAC or where Swenson says this?

Edit: I see this was asked already

 

[jkeny]

"Tool" is US collegiate slang for engineer.

Ah, right, slang changes between continents - it's slang for an idiot this side of the pond

 

[opus112]

I wonder if this is a case of protesting overmuch? The very last sentence quoted could be wrenched out of context to come close to what's being claimed, however a text without a context is merely a pretext.

 

[jkeny]

There is no logical fallacy here and nothing to see or really think through.

Nothing to see here, folks - move along now!!

Its an academic exercise and one party is mute. That is fine and that is one form of an answer, but why waste the time delineating your measurement equipment alluding to future developments, measurement schemes, etc. A lot of people want to hear from him not to to him but to see him shine forth. All the passive aggressive posturing is silly and diversionary

So you have not heard these devices nor have any interest in listening to them preferring instead to argue over mis-information & flawed measurements. Posturing is certainly what I would call it.

Another question I feel the need to ask you in order to try to understand your position - do you believe the source/transport is of no importance for a USB DAC & please explain?

 

[Geardaddy]

Which point? There's nothing I'm seeing in the text you quoted which supports your claim. What am I missing?

Remember you're doing the claiming so under scientific practice its for you to support your claim. Quoting two whole paragraphs looks like obfuscation when all you needed to do is cite where he's claimed what you've said he's claimed.

The MicroRendu is an amalgam of technologies and you have to SYNTHESIZE their collective claims which can be easily done by reading through their respective literature. Here is Uptone (http://uptoneaudio.com/products/usb-regen):

The USB REGEN takes the digital audio stream from your computer or other music streaming device, and generates a completely new USB data signal to feed to your DAC. It accomplishes this by combining a carefully chosen USB hub chip with an ultra low-noise regulator and low-jitter clock. Importantly, it does so with ideal impedance matching—right at the input of your DAC.

If you are familiar with the variations in sound quality that come from different computer configurations, USB cables, and power supplies (no, "bits are bits" really does not apply when pursuing the audio summit), then you will immediately recognize the often dramatic effect that the REGEN can have on the the connection you feel with the music.

Although the REGEN does not eliminate all sound quality differences between USB cables in a high-end system, it significantly reduces those differences. John Swenson has written about how the PHY chips and processors at the input of every USB DAC (even those with galvanic isolation) are sensitive to "packet noise modulation" and ground-plane noise—caused by poor signal integrity and impedance mis-matching. Every USB audio source (computer or streamer) and cable causes this, every DAC is affected by this—and the REGEN is the cure.

The USB REGEN's secondary function is that it disconnects the computer's noisy 5 volt bus power coming down the USB cable, and provides clean 5VBUS on its output--for DACs that need it—via a second ultra low-noise regulator.

From all the time we have spent listening to the REGEN in our systems we can say that it is exceeding our expectations. Often it sounds like you are listening to a different DAC! Of course the benefit will vary with each computer/DAC system, but we hear positive differences even with very modest systems. The improvement is different than with a power supply or computer optimizations—but perhaps larger.

Regardless of whether you are feeding your USB DAC from a from a stock computer, a fully-optimized music server, or a streamer/renderer (Auralic Aries, Bryston, Moon Audio, SOtM sMS-100, etc.), the REGEN has the potential to carry your music system to a new level.

Many of these "arguments" get lost in semantics and the synthesis of information largely due to the over abundance of intellectual surrogates.

I have no skin in this game, but I also don't like bullies and want to see Swenson, Sonore, inc. strut their stuff.

 

[Geardaddy]

Nothing to see here, folks - move along now!! So you have not heard these devices nor have any interest in listening to them preferring instead to argue over mis-information & flawed measurements. Posturing is certainly what I would call it.

Another question I feel the need to ask you in order to try to understand your position - do you believe the source/transport is of no importance for a USB DAC & please explain?

NO, NO. Intuitively, I have always thought the transport was as or more important to the equation. Thus my interest.....

A stock laptop or computer has always sounded wretched to my "ear"

 

[Geardaddy]

I wonder if this is a case of protesting overmuch? The very last sentence quoted could be wrenched out of context to come close to what's being claimed, however a text without a context is merely a pretext.

Opus, you are an amusing fellow. You like to dissect people's blabbering with pointed, Zen master type questioning. Unfortunately, language is failing my sentiments in this discussion....just schizophrenic snippets....

 

[jkeny]

The MicroRendu is an amalgam of technologies and you have to SYNTHESIZE their collective claims which can be easily done by reading through their respective literature. Here is Uptone (http://uptoneaudio.com/products/usb-regen):



Many of these "arguments" get lost in semantics and the synthesis of information largely due to the over abundance of intellectual surrogates.

I still can't see anywhere that says a lower noise floor in the DAC is the result of using a Regen or microRendu! So can you explain please?

I have no skin in this game, but I also don't like bullies and want to see Swenson, Sonore, inc. strut their stuff.

You want Swenson coming out of his corner, fighting off the bullies? But I already told you why he won't - they are producing misinformed & flawed measurements which have no bearing on the MicroRendu

 

[opus112]

The MicroRendu is an amalgam of technologies and you have to SYNTHESIZE their collective claims

Now you stand science on its head and ask me (or others) to do the work to verify that your claim is in fact the case. And you call this science?

 

[jkeny]

NO, NO. Intuitively, I have always thought the transport was as or more important to the equation. Thus my interest.....

A stock laptop or computer has always sounded wretched to my "ear"

Right, this is what I was beginning to realise & you want Swenson to hit back.
But do you not see that you are promulgating Amir's measurements of noise floor as having something to do with the microrendu - it doesn't.
So by your restatement of this misinformation, you are spreading this wrong concept

Do you honestly think that the wretched sound you hear with laptop & computer as transport would be captured by Amir's noise floor measurement of a USB DAC's output?

 

[opus112]

Opus, you are an amusing fellow.

Glad you're being entertained here

 

[Geardaddy]

Right, this is what I was beginning to realise & you want Swenson to hit back.
But do you not see that you are promulgating Amir's measurements of noise floor as having something to do with the microrendu - it doesn't.
So by your restatement of this misinformation, you are spreading this wrong concept

Do you honestly think that the wretched sound you hear with laptop & computer as transport would be captured by Amir's noise floor measurement of a USB DAC's output?

What relevance does that line of questioning have?

He conducted a crude experiment. He generated some questionable results and dubious semantics. So what. Forget about Amir.

How would you frame the question? What would you measure and why? What do you look for in a transport?

 

[opus112]

What do you look for in a transport?

1) Deliver the bits as on the source file with sufficiently low jitter.
2) Produce (and be susceptible to) as little as possible common-mode noise. Lowest CMnoise generally means battery powered.

 

[Geardaddy]

Now you stand science on its head and ask me (or others) to do the work to verify that your claim is in fact the case. And you call this science?

Say what? Did you just stumble out of the opium den? I make no claims regarding science. I am breathlessly awaiting science to unfold. Again, this is dust from surrogates. We need to wait on the companies to speak (or not).

 

[opus112]

I make no claims regarding science.

So I take it the answer to my question is 'no' then. Thanks for the clarification.

On reflection I've realized that you too, GD are an amusing fellow. Firstly you SYNTHESIZE what you want to hear from the companies and present your own synthesis as what the companies themselves are claiming. And without any trace of irony you then later claim that we do indeed need to wait for the companies themselves to speak. Pretty fun show all told

 

[Geardaddy]

1) Deliver the bits as on the source file with sufficiently low jitter.
2) Produce (and be susceptible to) as little as possible common-mode noise. Lowest CMnoise generally means battery powered.

What say ye of the Microrendu from a design standpoint?