I have become bored with tonal, common practice classical music

[Simon Moon]

I have recently come to the conclusion, that I am no longer enjoying much classical music that is tonal.

As of late, whenever I put on a recording of tonal, common practice, classical music from any of the major composers, I almost always end it before it is finished, as I lose interest. I find myself always opting for, and getting much more involved, with atonal and dissonant music. Especially from the mid 20th century up through the present.

I am not sure I am exactly happy with this situation, since a large part of my collection is going unlistened to, and not being enjoyed. But on the other hand, I am discovering so much incredible new music and composers, that I don't feel I am missing out.

Hopefully I will regain my taste for tonal music sometime in the future, so I have even more music to enjoy.

With regards to other musical genres that I listen to (prog, jazz, fusion), I am not experiencing this 'atonal only' preference.

 

[NorthStar]

Simon, can you give some examples of "new music and composers" you're enjoying recently in your music evolution?

I can dig what you're saying ...

Cheers,

 

[Al M.]

I have recently come to the conclusion, that I am no longer enjoying much classical music that is tonal.

As of late, whenever I put on a recording of tonal, common practice, classical music from any of the major composers, I almost always end it before it is finished, as I lose interest. I find myself always opting for, and getting much more involved, with atonal and dissonant music. Especially from the mid 20th century up through the present.

I am not sure I am exactly happy with this situation, since a large part of my collection is going unlistened to, and not being enjoyed. But on the other hand, I am discovering so much incredible new music and composers, that I don't feel I am missing out.

Hopefully I will regain my taste for tonal music sometime in the future, so I have even more music to enjoy.

With regards to other musical genres that I listen to (prog, jazz, fusion), I am not experiencing this 'atonal only' preference.

Sorry to hear about your predicament. I am also an eager listener to classical avantgarde and in general more modern classical music. My favorite composer of the 20th and 21st centuries is Stockhausen, but I listen to tons of other stuff, like recently Stravinsky's Petrouchka, which is shockingly innovative. Yet I have never lost touch with the classics. While Stockhausen is one of the three composers in all of music history that I admire most, the other two are Bach and Beethoven.

Lately I have rediscovered Tchaikovsky, and listened a lot to his first piano concerto and his violin concerto. I just love that music. I am a musical omnivore, and that includes the romantics. Yet just a few days ago, while looking through my stacks of CDs, I noticed Schoenberg's violin concerto, which I also love, now again listen to, and which forms a nice counterpart to Tchaikovsky's concerto.

 

[bonzo75]

Great recorded renditions of Tchaikovsky violin concerto are Kogan, then Campoli. The Kogan original goes for 5k to 7k, the electric recording company has a good reissue (of all their reissues there are two I prefer most both sonically and performance wise and this was one of them, so I bought it from Madfloyd). The Campoli is quite good, but the reissue on analogphonic I don't like so much. And I bought the Henryk Szeryng RCA original from the General after hearing it, it was so intense. The heifetz is great too. Erica Morini and Devy Erlih are also supposed to be good but never heard myself

I have watched live many times, on Thursday I am watching Nicola Benedetti perform it at barbican.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Alas the OP will not be indulging in the aforementioned Tchaikovsky since it is very “tonal” to quote his expression lol.

 

[marty]

Funny you should mention the Tchaikovsky violin concerto, Ked. I spent one evening last week listening to the following violinists play it, specifically the last movement. For those of you not necessarily familiar with the piece, many violin concertos are written by the composer to reflect a theme. Tchaikovsky wrote this piece for one reason and one reason only, which was to highlight the full range of musical expression and capabilities of the violin and to showcase the artist performing the piece. I listened to the following artists over 3+ hours of listening, often playing the same movement twice.

Heifitz, Josefowitz, Kogan, Rabin, Perlman, Bell and Shaham. At this level, there is nothing but personal preference. However, I came away with a clear preference, which was Michael Rabin. Almost and nearly identical in phrasing and technique was Perlman, which is not surprising perhaps since they had the same teacher at Julliard, Ivan Galmain. Not only was their playing similar, but they are both direct descendents of the Soviet school typified by Kogan (even though Rabin was American and Perlman, Israeli). It is also no accident that all 3 are Jewish. If there's a gene for violin skills, they all certainly had it. My disappointment in Heifetz was profound. I find him entirely over-rated on almost everything I've heard him play (and yes, I am well aware I am in the minority here). Personally, I think Heifetz's popularity was due to the fact that at his peak in the 30-40's, there was a real dirth of competition. Heifetz was Kogan's idol (along with Kreisler) and although Heifetz was considered the greatest virtuoso since Paganini, I think Kogan brought far more emotion to the instrument that Heifetz, who I always found "colder" in comparison. Yet as good a Heifetz was, in my view, there are many graduates of today's best music schools that would easily be his equal. Yes, I know. Heresy indeed!.

I find that Rabin is just in a class by himself. His technique is flawless and his emotional IQ for the piece is extraordinary. It's hard to know why he seems to get every damn phrase just perfect, but he does. Breathtakingly fast and precise when need be, and poignant to the point of tears when required. And always- complete mastery of the instrument at all times. The sound unfortunately was the worst of the bunch except for Heifetz, which isn't surprising due to the dates of the recordings. But if it's sound and performance you're after, the Perlman set from EMI that covers him in his prime from 72-80 is the desert island set I'd buy. He's such a beautiful player in everything he touches and a complete joy to listen to.

 

[ack]

Easy on Heifetz please We are personal close friends with a descendant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inna_Heifetz who lives 20 minutes away; kids went to school together.

 

[bonzo75]

I saw Bell too play it live. Don't like him.

The Kogan is excellent both performance wise age sonically, but now the price of the ERC reissues will also go up to a 1000 or so.

Which Rabin press do you have, or did you listen on digital?

 

[ack]

... and time to discover the sheer genius and beautiful and romantic complexity of Mahler who shaped his music around his personal life. Great books on him, like this one I own

 

[marty]

... and time to discover the sheer genius and beautiful and romantic complexity of Mahler who shaped his music around his personal life. Great books on him, like this one I own

For me, Mahler is at the very top of the classical food chain. Will be seeing his 4th at Carnegie next week with your hometown band, the BSO! There are several Mahlerites on this forum (Ked among others).

 

[Al M.]

Funny you should mention the Tchaikovsky violin concerto, Ked. I spent one evening last week listening to the following violinists play it, specifically the last movement. For those of you not necessarily familiar with the piece, many violin concertos are written by the composer to reflect a theme. Tchaikovsky wrote this piece for one reason and one reason only, which was to highlight the full range of musical expression and capabilities of the violin and to showcase the artist performing the piece. I listened to the following artists over 3+ hours of listening, often playing the same movement twice.

Heifitz, Josefowitz, Kogan, Rabin, Perlman, Bell and Shaham. At this level, there is nothing but personal preference. However, I came away with a clear preference, which was Michael Rabin. Almost and nearly identical in phrasing and technique was Perlman, which is not surprising perhaps since they had the same teacher at Julliard, Ivan Galmain. Not only was their playing similar, but they are both direct descendents of the Soviet school typified by Kogan (even though Rabin was American and Perlman, Israeli). It is also no accident that all 3 are Jewish. If there's a gene for violin skills, they all certainly had it. My disappointment in Heifetz was profound. I find him entirely over-rated on almost everything I've heard him play (and yes, I am well aware I am in the minority here). Personally, I think Heifetz's popularity was due to the fact that at his peak in the 30-40's, there was a real dirth of competition. Heifetz was Kogan's idol (along with Kreisler) and although Heifetz was considered the greatest virtuoso since Paganini, I think Kogan brought far more emotion to the instrument that Heifetz, who I always found "colder" in comparison. Yet as good a Hefetz was, in my view, there are many graduates of today's best music schools that would easily be his equal. Yes, I know. Heresy indeed!.

I find that Rabin is just in a class by himself. His technique is flawless and his emotional IQ for the piece is extraordinary. It's hard to know why he seems to get every damn phrase just perfect, but he does. Breathtakingly fast and precise when need be, and poignant to the point of tears when required. And always- complete mastery of the instrument at all times. The sound unfortunately was the worst of the bunch except for Heifetz, which isn't surprising due to the dates of the recordings. But if it's sound and performance you're after, the Perlman set from EMI that covers him in his prime from 72-80 is the desert island set I'd buy. He's such a beautiful player in everything he touches and a complete joy to listen to.

Fascinating comparison, Marty.

I just listened to the Tchaikovsky concerto with Salvatore Accardo as soloist (BBC Symphony, Colin Davis cond.). After that I listened to a wonderfully scratchy and dissonant solo violin piece ("Air") by contemporary composer Richard Barrett. A few years ago Hilary Hahn commissioned, and recorded, short pieces by 27 pieces by contemporary composers, Richard Barrett being one of them. She then went with the Barrett piece (violin and piano, I believe) on tour.

Early in the afternoon I listened to the Schoenberg violin concerto with Hilary Hahn.

 

[Al M.]

... and time to discover the sheer genius and beautiful and romantic complexity of Mahler who shaped his music around his personal life. Great books on him, like this one I own

Yes, romantic complexity. Recently I listened to Mahler's Seventh (CSO, Solti) and was blown away by how emotionally complex the narrative is in the fourth movement, Nachtmusik II (Night Music II). This was the first time that I listened for that carefully, it takes sone concentration. And the, at times even mocking, ambiguity of the Finale is always something to behold.

 

[Al M.]

I've written a lot on Mahler in this and other forums. For me, he is at the very top of the classical food chain.

He is certainly one of the greatest symphonic composers!

Will be seeing his 4th at Carnegie next week with your hometown band, the BSO!

Excellent, enjoy!

 

[Al M.]

I just listened to Haydn's early Symphony #37 (misnumbered, probably his second symphony). What delightful, intelligent and captivating music.

 

[astrotoy]

Going back to the OP. We attended a concert today given by the wonderful Danish String Quartet. They played a thematically connected program of a Bach fugue arranged for string quartet, followed by the great Beethoven Op130 string quartet with the original Grosse Fugue last movement which uses a subject adapted from the Bach fugue for its main subject. If you don't know the Grosse Fugue (Op.133) it is probably the most modern piece of music to come out of the first half of the 19th century - atonal, contrapuntal, dissonant. The second half of the program was the Schnittke string quartet 3, written in 1983. It uses the Grosse Fugue subject in the first and last movements as well as fragments of pieces from the Renaissance (de Lassus) and Shostakovich. The musical term for this work is classic polystylism. Here is an analysis:

https://www.allmusic.com/composition/string-quartet-no-3-mc0002415915


A quick note on the very tonal Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto. I have an original Kogan blue/silver label EMI Columbia vinyl (which I bought 25+ years ago) and the Heifetz Reiner RCA recording on a 1/2" safety master tape.

Larry

 

[Folsom]

I don't listen to symphonies hardly ever... they are more tonal than listening to instrument specific pieces.

To me it seems like ERC literally hates music. They try to avoid anyone hearing these great pieces.

 

[tima]

I get the atonal stuff and enjoy it when I give myself time. Yes, even the poo composer who has strikes of sheer genius inside his dissonant nucleic themes that offer little sense of journey, destination or narative yet celebrate the physicality of sound.

And yet ... and yet in the long run I have that in-built Western need for resolution.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Going back to the OP. We attended a concert today given by the wonderful Danish String Quartet. They played a thematically connected program of a Bach fugue arranged for string quartet, followed by the great Beethoven Op130 string quartet with the original Grosse Fugue last movement which uses a subject adapted from the Bach fugue for its main subject. If you don't know the Grosse Fugue (Op.133) it is probably the most modern piece of music to come out of the first half of the 19th century - atonal, contrapuntal, dissonant. The second half of the program was the Schnittke string quartet 3, written in 1983. It uses the Grosse Fugue subject in the first and last movements as well as fragments of pieces from the Renaissance (de Lassus) and Shostakovich. The musical term for this work is classic polystylism. Here is an analysis:

https://www.allmusic.com/composition/string-quartet-no-3-mc0002415915


A quick note on the very tonal Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto. I have an original Kogan blue/silver label EMI Columbia vinyl (which I bought 25+ years ago) and the Heifetz Reiner RCA recording on a 1/2" safety master tape.

Larry

Hi Larry,

If you enjoyed the Schnittke, I recommend to check out the below cello sonata LP - performed by Natalia Gutman.

 

[Al M.]

Going back to the OP. We attended a concert today given by the wonderful Danish String Quartet. They played a thematically connected program of a Bach fugue arranged for string quartet, followed by the great Beethoven Op130 string quartet with the original Grosse Fugue last movement which uses a subject adapted from the Bach fugue for its main subject. If you don't know the Grosse Fugue (Op.133) it is probably the most modern piece of music to come out of the first half of the 19th century - atonal, contrapuntal, dissonant. The second half of the program was the Schnittke string quartet 3, written in 1983. It uses the Grosse Fugue subject in the first and last movements as well as fragments of pieces from the Renaissance (de Lassus) and Shostakovich. The musical term for this work is classic polystylism. Here is an analysis:

https://www.allmusic.com/composition/string-quartet-no-3-mc0002415915


A quick note on the very tonal Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto. I have an original Kogan blue/silver label EMI Columbia vinyl (which I bought 25+ years ago) and the Heifetz Reiner RCA recording on a 1/2" safety master tape.

Larry

Excellent program, wish I could have been there. The Schnittke is a great piece; whenever Schnittke comes up on Harvard radio I am struck by how distinct from any other modern composers he sounds. One time they played his viola concerto that I used to listen to often in the Nineties, and after hearing it again after such a long time I couldn't believe the colors, the structure, the expression. It is really unique. In his last years Schnittke abandoned polystylism, by the way.

While Beethoven's Grosse Fuge is dissonant and contrapuntal, it is strictly spoken not atonal. Schoenberg though called it a "premonition of atonality".

 

[Al M.]

I get the atonal stuff and enjoy it when I give myself time. Yes, even the poo composer who has strikes of sheer genius inside his dissonant nucleic themes that offer little sense of journey, destination or narative yet celebrate the physicality of sound.

And yet ... and yet in the long run I have that in-built Western need for resolution.

In-built Western need? I am culturally a Westerner too, but I don't have that need.