How do you suspend beliefs of Ticks, Pops, and Surface Noise?

[Vette]

I sell a magic solution that removes all ticks and pops from LP records. The worse the ticks and pops are the better the magic solution works. Please send $9.99 plus shipping.

 

[cjfrbw]

Just part of the medium milieu. If you love the medium, than you like or tolerate the milieu.

Regular ticks are annoying. The more randomized the noise, the less I care about it. Hey, they have software that adds vinyl warp, tics and noise to digital music as an atmospheric effect.

Noise is usefel for cueing dimensionality. In my room, it travels around the room and even can travel through my head like little sonic bullets.

 

[DaveyF]

Sorry, remove detail is not really the right wording. Obscuring detail is more like it. If you clean the stuff off the detail is still in the record. It just leaves a layer of film that fills in the micro details in the groove, that's all. If you use a cartridge with an advanced stylus profile and have a resolving enough system you will hear the difference.

If the record is trashed then it may sound better on the whole to use the stuff. I don't think it is necessarily evil but it is definitely not ideal.

How does it attach to the stylus? Same way it attaches to the record. It is a film. It will get onto the stylus by riding in it.

Have to disagree here. IME, Gruv Glide does nothing but good things to LP's that are a little noisy....including bringing more detail to the fore. ( the reduction of hash and pops allows this to happen....as one would expect).
Would I use Gruv Glide on a new or pristine copy...NO. It's not necessary. That's not the point of Gruv Glide...it's strictly for noisier LP's. ( which IF you collect used LP's, you are going to run into MANY noisy copies...OTOH, IF you are simply buying NEW..then your experience will probably be different ( hopefully..)).

 

[caesar]

Do people use similar methods of disbelief suspension to listen through digital harshness and glare?

Heck yes, Doc. Just check out all the CD accessories available. They vary from markers to write over the edges, oils and liquids you can rub on the disk, disk mats for your transport, and various demagnitizers/ static electricity removers. All work to some extent or other.

I love great recordings and new remasters as much as any guy out there. But how many times can you listen to the newish and superb Ella and Louis record without getting bored? If a "rough" recording or medium can be improved to better enjoy the musical genius, or an event that is gone forever, why not?

 

[cuntigh]

Have to disagree here. IME, Gruv Glide does nothing but good things to LP's that are a little noisy....including bringing more detail to the fore. ( the reduction of hash and pops allows this to happen....as one would expect).
Would I use Gruv Glide on a new or pristine copy...NO. It's not necessary. That's not the point of Gruv Glide...it's strictly for noisier LP's. ( which IF you collect used LP's, you are going to run into MANY noisy copies...OTOH, IF you are simply buying NEW..then your experience will probably be different ( hopefully..)).

A good friend of mine used to use Groove Glide on his records. When I bought my RCM he came home with some records for a cleaning try.
At that time I used "L'Art du Son" cleaning fluid. When I made the first wash there was a kind of mud on the record That could hardly be succioned by the Keith Monks. I had to do 2 pass for putting that s..t off. I swore I would never use it on my records.

 

[Grooves]

Hi Caeser,
This thread plays right into my wheel house so to speak. I consider myself, amongst people I know at least, to be the king of "pops and ticks". I have battled it throughout my audiophile adulthood. After 3 TT's, numerous cartridges, tonearms, speakers, etc., etc., I have for some reason a system that accentuates "pops and ticks". So, I know what it means to be bothered by noisy vinyl. I play my Lp's on my friends systems and the same noise is pushed behind the music rather than in front, making it less noticable and tollerable. Somewhere along my audio chain something or a number of somethings, are causing this effect. While I have narrowed it down to my preamp/amp, I also believe my room does have something to do with it. All I can do is be very selective in what vinyl I buy used, spend more than my friends do on vinyl cleaning equipment, and try and enjoy despite some noise.
I recently brought some new Lp's to play on a fellow WTB's system and while he agreed that these new Lp's were noisy ("they should be returned") they didn't sound nearly as noisy on his system as in mine. Some day, I may have a chance at trying a differnt room in my house to set up my system but until then I'll have to grin and bear it.

 

[DaveyF]

A good friend of mine used to use Groove Glide on his records. When I bought my RCM he came home with some records for a cleaning try.
At that time I used "L'Art du Son" cleaning fluid. When I made the first wash there was a kind of mud on the record That could hardly be succioned by the Keith Monks. I had to do 2 pass for putting that s..t off. I swore I would never use it on my records.

cuntigh, there is a presumption that one CLEANS the record FIRST prior to applying Gruv Glide, LOL:. Preferably this cleaning is done on a RCM.

 

[BobM]

Some of those $1 finds are just going to be noisy. So you either listen through it (after thorough cleaning) or you put them in the "for someone else" pile that gets sold at the garage sale. That's the price for taking a shot on a $1 record. Now I have purchased $20 records that had obvious groove noise damage. Those went back.

As for the regular used vinyl in decent condition - clean the records, use a fine line stylus that sits deeper in the groove, drink something alcoholic.

 

[Atmasphere]

Some good commentary from Ralph and Doug in this thread: surface noise and cartridge/ phono pre questions

Scroll down and look for JCarr's comments as well.

I don't use any treatment on my LPs other than a dust brush at the time of play. I'm not used to hearing surface noise either unless a scratch is present on the LP. Otherwise surface noise is something I remember from long ago. Certainly LP condition plays a role but IME if you buy one new its likely to be fine. The problem is high frequency stability in the phono equalizer as discussed in that thread linked above.

In the succeeding years I've come around to the idea that loop feedback EQ is not the problem if executed correctly. Sometimes to do EQ nested in the feedback requires modeling in PSpice as there are a lot variables not stated in the usual formulae for feedback. RFI can be a big contributer- but the point here is that not all phono sections act the same and if you have high frequency stability problems in your phono section, you are going to hear a lot more ticks and pops.

A whole generation of people grew up on lousy phono equlizers built in to Japanese receivers from the 70s and 80s and they came to think that all LPs have ticks and pops. Its really more accurate to say that poor phono preamp designs have more ticks and pops!

 

[Audiophile Bill]

If you have plenty of money, then the FM acoustics phono stage has a click remover and hiss remover on the fly. Meant to be a great product.

http://www.fmacoustics.com/products/phono-linearizers/fm-223/

 

[Bruce B]

If you must, like Larry, I'd much rather use software to remove Ticks/Pops and Surface Noise. The problem with the FM Acoustics and other hardware pieces is that it's either on or off. You can not set a threshold where you just get rid of the tick/pop and loose resolution.

The best on the market I've used, in order of preference, is Cedar, Algorithmix and Izotope.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

If you must, like Larry, I'd much rather use software to remove Ticks/Pops and Surface Noise. The problem with the FM Acoustics and other hardware pieces is that it's either on or off. You can not set a threshold where you just get rid of the tick/pop and loose resolution.

The best on the market I've used, in order of preference, is Cedar, Algorithmix and Izotope.

Hi Bruce,

Can this be done on the fly? Or do you mean archiving you're vinyl and then using the software to "clean" it up.

 

[Atmasphere]

Seems like something like that would only be worthwhile if the only recording one had was in desperate condition.

 

[rockitman]

Seems like something like that would only be worthwhile if the only recording one had was in desperate condition.

+1...if pops and clicks are too annoying, get another copy of the LP.

 

[Bruce B]

Hi Bruce,

Can this be done on the fly? Or do you mean archiving you're vinyl and then using the software to "clean" it up.

Nothing on the fly as I know of. You need a "look ahead" feature that would require lots of DSP.

 

[dallasjustice]

Nothing on the fly as I know of. You need a "look ahead" feature that would require lots of DSP.

It is certainly possible to playback vinyl in "real time" off a computer. I haven't tried it yet. But, just for fun, I want to borrow a turntable and do it with either Jriver or Acourate convolver. Of course, "real time" playback couldn't remove LP rumble or the pops/clix.

 

[scouter]

Is there anything you do? Or in the end, is it just about spending more money on gear that does a better job of bringing out your realism triggers so you can ignore it?

Just got Lily and Madeline's Fumes on LP. I've been listening to this on download through Audirvana and an Ayre QB9, which has not left me for want of anything in the past. Played the LP on my Sota and ET 2.5 last night. Nothing short of magical. Not to beat a dead horse or stir the pot- digital and analog each have their strong suits- but the "analog artifacts" were much pleasing to my ears.
BTW, Lily and Madeline deserve a good listen from all in either format -CD, download, or vinyl- quite impressive for a couple of young sisters here in the USA!

 

[Mosin]

Hi Bruce, Can this be done on the fly? Or do you mean archiving you're vinyl and then using the software to "clean" it up.

Yes, it can. There is a freeware called Audiograbber. Algorithmix offered a plugin for it that allowed the user to make corrections as the recording was being made. It works well.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Yes, it can. There is a freeware called Audiograbber. Algorithmix offered a plugin for it that allowed the user to make corrections as the recording was being made. It works well.

Interesting. That means you could use the phono stage of your choice into a AD converter into your choice of playback software with room correction and declicking. Think I might try this for fun.

 

[dallasjustice]

Why store a digital file?

You could simply add an inverse RIAA curve to Jriver Convolver. Just play LPs to a zone with ASIO line in setup and filters in convolver. Audiolense XO and Acourate both have 64 bit float FIR RIAA filters available. Of course, one could tailer to their liking and even change filters depending on the LP, etc. Also, you only dither/process the digital one time.

You could of course rip your brand new, hopefully pristine vinyl ,with a good A/D converter and then just play the file,
perfect vinyl and no wear!
Keith.