Hovland HP200 - still relevant after 7 years?

[spiritofmusic]

WBguys, your thoughts please. I've made wholescale changes in my system since 2012, in effect changing the entire system - rim drive tt/linear tracking arm/straingauge cart/SET amps/full range driver spkrs. And vitally, total overhaul of power w/balanced transformer and grounding. I totally love the system, and wasn't feeling the need to swap out any components, but the Eera Tentation cdp I've been trialling has given my digital a shot in the arm.
This is all a precursor to the idea that maybe I should investigate other tubed preamp options. My venerable 2006 vintage Hovland HP200 has given me great SQ (esp. retubed w/50's Telefunken tubes) and reliability, and I'm v.fond of it. But as I've found w/the Eera cdp which has just replaced my much loved Emm Labs CDSA SE, there may be better options 7 years on. To reiterate, I am not unhappy w/my Hov, and if I was to replace it, a new pre would really have to give me something special.
My shortlist is the Nagra Jazz, Wyetech Labs Ruby Std, Manley Labs Neo Classic 300B, all in the $5k-$13k (£4k-£9k) category. I can't afford anything in the stratosphere like Allnic DHT, Koda K10/K15, Ypsilon etc. Other thoughts welcome. Prefer to deal w/boutique operations rather than the big hitters (personal choice).
Any thoughts, esp. from those familiar w/the HP200?

 

[mep]

Do you need a preamp or line stage?

 

[spiritofmusic]

MEP, a tubed line stage. Running a Soundsmith Straingauge cart, no need for phono.

 

[MylesBAstor]

It's been many years since heard the Hovland but it was my impression that the phono stage was somewhat rolled off. That was with at the time a Foresell/vdh Grasshopper/Jadis JA-200/MBL 101as and put up against at that time what was considered the best step up transformer made at that time by this company in MA (who's name escapes me). Point is that you may have to rebalance things with another phono section.

 

[MylesBAstor]

It's been many years since heard the Hovland but it was my impression that the phono stage was somewhat rolled off. That was with at the time a Foresell/vdh Grasshopper/Jadis JA-200/MBL 101as and put up against at that time what was considered the best step up transformer made at that time by this company in MA (who's name escapes me). Point is that you may have to rebalance things with another phono section.

Expressive Technologies. May have actually been $4K.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Myles, I don't need a phono. I'm running a Straingauge. Just a tubed line stage to consider.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Myles, I don't need a phono. I'm running a Straingauge. Just a tubed line stage to consider.

OK misunderstood you.

 

[mep]

Myles, I don't need a phono. I'm running a Straingauge. Just a tubed line stage to consider.

There are so many tube line stages out there from great companies, it's hard to know where to start.

 

[spiritofmusic]

MEP, can you name a few you rate? I'm going to struggle to afford pricier designs like the Koda K10/K15, Ypsilon etc. And I have a soft spot for boutique operations, so my current shortlist incls the Nagra Jazz, Wyetech Labs Ruby Std and Manley Labs Ruby Std. But I'd love to be enlightened by a longer list.
The main purpose of this thread is to gauge how the Hovland HP200 stacks up in this day and age, 7 years on from it's introduction.

 

[jazdoc]

The audiophile's curse. You are happy but it's gnawing at you...could you be happier? I would argue that in this case, perfection is the enemy of good (or even great). You will likely exchange one set of tradeoffs for another. Unless you can definitively isolate something specific to the Hovland that is a) materially reducing your musical enjoyment and b) is amenable to a fix with a new unit without introducing some new source of sonic angst, I would strongly advise keeping the Hovland. Presuming that you've got your retirement savings and kid's college expenses in order, you could then consider an even better purchase: more music.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Jazzdoc, that's a really erudite reply, and actually sums up my feelings. W/my other upgrades, I've definitely struck gold: going to direct rim drive tt/linear tracking arm/Straingauge cart has given my analog front end a really satisfying neutrality and transparency; SET amps has given me tone to die for; full range driver/minimal xover spkrs have given me density of sound second to none. I wasn't actually really considering changing cdp being content w/my Emm, but recent Eera trial (and resulting purchase) has provided me with a digital front end that is right up there w/what I consider to be my top performing analog rig.
My Hovland actually isn't letting the side down in any way, and actually has a great synergy with my SET amps, it's slightly cool character nicely counterbalancing the naturally warmer monoblocks. And as such it would be risky to upset an excellent balance. I gather the Wyetech Labs Ruby Std pre may be somewhat faster, the Manley Audio Neo Classic 300B may be warmer/more toneful, and the Nagra Jazz may offer more resolution esp. at lower volumes. But each may well not offer the overall range of positives that my HP200 does. And often synergy in a system only really becomes apparent over longer periods, more than a trial could provide.
Checking the reviews of the HP100 from c.2000/1 and the HP200 from c.2005/6, they were all positive, lauding transparency, deftness of touch, and lack of overt tube character - pretty much the reasons I went ahead and purchased, and the reason why the it still sounds so good still today.
So, yes Jazzdoc, I should be wary of what I wish for...

 

[XV-1]

Nt

 

[JackD201]

Preamps are rather tricky being smack dab in the middle of everything. Changing one is one of the quickest ways to start a chain reaction, pun intended No way to AB quickly, lots of wrestling with cables, subsequent tweaking of everything else up and downstream. That said, nothing ventured nothing gained. If you're up for the mental and physical exercise, go for it. The only thing I would definitely not do is sell off the preamp that is serving me well before trying out options. In any case, I don't think you would either.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Jack and Jazdoc, I'm now veering away from making this a priority. If I can gain simple trials I may go fwd, but I suspect there won't be a radical upping in SQ as going from my Emm labs CDSA SE cdp to the Eera Tentation. In truth, there is nothing about my Hov that I'm unhappy about, still consider it to be a top draw component.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Will be listening to a Koda K10 tmrw. Interesting ref point. Not in my system, but may request a home trial. Would be v.curious to a-b v. my Hov.

 

[Jazzhead]

Will be listening to a Koda K10 tmrw. Interesting ref point. Not in my system, but may request a home trial. Would be v.curious to a-b v. my Hov.

cool .. will be keenly awaiting your take on the Koda ... Cheers

 

[thedudeabides]

The Conrad Johnson ET5. $10K MSRP.

Beware of the break in time for the teflon capacitors. 500 hours.

GG

 

[spiritofmusic]

Inconclusive thoughts on the Koda K10. Firstly, it was in a system unfamiliar to me (I'm trying to secure a home trial myself). The owner of the system had done a previous preamp shoot out (incl. ARC Ref 3?), and the overwhelming conclusion was that the Koda was a level above, being v.natural and unforced, even handed across the spectrum, just enhancing the purity of the signal w/out artificially exaggerating bass etc. He felt it clearly beat his existing Aesthetix pre, but w/out embarrassing it. He's also trialling Tripoint Troy grounding, and was of the opinion that switching K10/Troy in/out gave the verdict of most impvt to the Troy.
I have to say I agree - when the K10 was switched out for the Aesthetix, there was some change, but not massive, and in some ways I preferred the Aesthetix. BUT... switching out the Troy REALLY led to a congealing of soundstage, and lack of focus in bass, w/ambient cues really obscured.
This has been my experience w/grounding, in my case Entreq Silver Tellus/Apollo. We sort of concluded that the Troy was "better VFM", a £16k grounding solution more fundamental than a £25k preamp. But as always YMMV. I'm really curious to hear the Koda in my system where I'd be most aware of the changes it might bring. But this sneak peek actually further reinforces my view that cold cash spent on grounding/power is really where it'll be at for me, not amp component changes.

 

[spiritofmusic]

I've been w/out the Koda K10 for a week now, back to my venerable Hov. I managed to really make the K10 sing, esp. w/change of power cord to Sablon Quantum Gran Corona and Symposium Acoustics Rollerblocks Jnrs pucks. What I've noticed comparing a current SOTA contender $31k SS preamp (Koda K10) v a top performing $8k tube pre example from the mid 00's (my Hovland HP200), is that my Hov is lacking in terms of bass extension/texture, ultimate transparency and lowest noise floor. The Koda is really intoxicating in terms of bringing a Zen stillness to the soundstage - my Hovland is fairly ragged in comparison. This is due to the Koda's quite spooky silence and see thru quality. But the Hovland still wins out in overall excitement and involvement, so a win on points, but not a knock out blow for the K10. Perhaps more time in my system would have swung things even more.
What this has taught me is that maybe some tube rolling is in order, poss the 50's Telefunken 12AT7s/12AX7s that I got from Andy's Vintage Tube Services ought to be changed to something a little warmer and more transparent eg Amperex, or even audition one or two poss warmer preamps eg the Manley Labs Neo Classic 300B.

 

[zbub]

Hi there, been an owner of HP100 for about 7 years, and had a good friend owning HP200 for even longer period (he still has HP200 in his system), I would say that from a musical stand point, your HP200 is still fantastically good. But I do understand the upgrade bug and you may be too used to its sound and simply just want something different.
Reading from your last post, and if you want to try tube rolling, my personal experience was that the stock Sovtek 12AX7LP were really, really good already. I tried subbing them with either ribbed plate or smooth plate TFK ECC83 but thought the stock tube sounded more balanced (in my system) than either TFK. However between the 2 TFK ECC83 I preferred the ribbed plate a little more. On the other hand, I had a lot more success rolling the 12AT7 tube. I tried various ECC81 I can land, including TFK ECC801S, three types of Valvo 6201 (blue label pinch waist gold pin, blue label, and white label), and ended up using TFK ECC801S for phono stage and Valvo blue label pinch waist for line stage. As for my friend, he was not as crazy as me and was really satisfied with the stock tubes.
Try these out if you have the chance!