Gryphon Amplifier Crackle? Help!

[LL21]

So the saga continues...they said they could not replicate the problem! i asked them to run the amp super, super, super hot for 8-10 hours a day for a week. my problem arises usually towards the end of a 12-15 hour day of running the amp, where it finishes with a movie (where the volume knob is turned 30%-50% higher because the video soundtrack is recorded at lower level).

 

[mep]

I guess that makes it a self-healing amplifier.

 

[LL21]

i wish...

 

[Orb]

So the saga continues...they said they could not replicate the problem! i asked them to run the amp super, super, super hot for 8-10 hours a day for a week. my problem arises usually towards the end of a 12-15 hour day of running the amp, where it finishes with a movie (where the volume knob is turned 30%-50% higher because the video soundtrack is recorded at lower level).

Lloyd,
the temporary replacement amp you have is working fine under the same circumstances (used in same way and same duration)?
I appreciate it is a different model, but if its fine then it may suggest an issue between interconnecting the Gryphon to those speakers/preamp.
Might be worth to see if the dealer or manufacturer can loan same model your experiencing problems with, to see if it is model or specific to your own amp.
Cheers
Orb

 

[LL21]

Hi Orb,

Appreciate your time and experience....that is very interesting you say that. Here's why. The Goldmund Mimesis 6 (loaner) has SE inputs...the Gryphon does not. Thus, i have to use adaptors between my CJ ACT 2 SE out and the Gryphon. Gryphon originally thought that this was the problem and gave me new adaptors...but the problem came right back when it arrived back. Then the UK's largest distributor helped me out and changed entire capacitor, etc...and the problem went away for 5 months...only to come back. (BTW, i have changed speakers from Strads to Wilson Grand Slamms during my ownership of the Gryphon and still have the problem.)

Could it really be SE-XLR adaptors?...bear in mind when the Gryphon had NO Interconnects connected to it (just speaker cable to speakers) the L Channel buzz still happened after running it for a few hours that way.

 

[RogerD]

Adapters are bad news. I still think it is a transistor though. My experience is that one channel only usually points to a bad or going bad transistor,especially when the amp gets hot. These problems can be hard to solve. I would have the tech R&R the transistors on the output board. He should be willing to do that. Good luck.

 

[LL21]

Thanks, RogerD. by R&R...you mean replace them all? Also on the adaptors...should i get my Transparent Ref ICs reterminated?...and if so, is there any point buying a balanced cable and having the XLR end into the CJ preamp reterminated to RCA...or should i just reterminate my existing SE IC with XLR on one end? thanks!!!

 

[Orb]

Adapters are bad news. I still think it is a transistor though. My experience is that one channel only usually points to a bad or going bad transistor,especially when the amp gets hot. These problems can be hard to solve. I would have the tech R&R the transistors on the output board. He should be willing to do that. Good luck.

Yeah agree on both parts of that, only problem I have with XLR is whether the pins are implemented correctly with regards to which is hot/chassis ground but this issue is not that nor can cause it IMO.

Still, if the amp causes this just being powered up for awhile (seems that also happens when interconnects are removed), I would had thought they should had seen this behaviour at repairs with it powered up on the test bench for severeal hours.

Lloyd, just curious how and what cables do you use to connect the amp to the speakers?
Still, the most likely bet is as mentioned transistors with one channel, I assume this is the stereo version and not monoblocks.
Still wondering if something about your setup is aggravating the situation, but a good chance it is not.

Thanks
Orb

 

[LL21]

Hi Orb, it took about 5 months after having capacitors replaced for it to come back...and only then under intense use (12-15 hrs/day with 2-4 hours of video where i turn the pre amp30%-50% higher because the video soundtrack is much softer). At normal volumes, it either does not happen...or it may take weeks for it to eventually "wear down" and start happening more regularly.

As for cables, i use older Transp Ref cables from Amp to speakers...these are being used with my loaner amp (i have had 2 loaners in situ plus my original CJ amp)...never had a problem with any other amp in 5 years of ownership of these speaker cables. i suspect it is some tiny little transistor somewhere, based on what people have kindly shared here on this site...and unless you turn the bloody amp super-hot for hours...it just does not appear. in which case, i either let it finally die and then get it replaced...or i try to "blanket" the problem by replacing a whole slew of transistors in the hopes it is one of them.

 

[mep]

Using XLR adapaters can lead to hum issues. I have never heard of XLR adapters causing the sound to crackle. R&R stands for "remove and replace."

 

[LL21]

Thanks MEP. i am fortunate not to have hum issues with the adaptors...others have said the same about crackle. I have emailed the Dealer and asked if they also replaced output board transistors...and to consider doing so.

 

[microstrip]

I would be very careful with power cords and power conditioners because 115V and 230V are so very different - not only in the way the electricity is delivered, but also in the way that the power supply inside the component is designed. The usual way that a power transformer is done - two primary coils, wired in parallel for 115V and wired in series for 230V - reacts very differently with the two different voltages. The different wiring also makes the component sound vastly different - power amps more so than source components.

May be someone else could jump in with the differences because I haven't done as much study as I would have liked to have done on power transformers.

One of the reasons why transformers react differently at 115 or 230V is because usually 115V is 60Hz and 230V is 50 Hz. Flux transformer will be higher at 50Hz and unless the core was not calculated to be used at 50Hz you will operate it near or in saturation and it can affect sound performance. Some manufacturers ignore this aspect - it is why sometimes transformers from USA manufactured goods rewired in series hum a lot in Europe.

 

[Orb]

Heya Microstrip,
I think one other aspect though that would stand out in this case is mechanical noise from transformer in the amp, which comes across as buzzing inside the amp.
Still I would had hoped if even this was done wrong it would had been flagged instantly they started testing/diagnostics on the engineer bench.

Cheers
Orb

 

[LL21]

In my particular case, this Unit was originally for Germany (230V)...but when it was sent back to UK, they said in addition to trying to find problem, they did adjust unit for use i uk (240V). i just wonder if the read-out at 248V-251V on the unit when plugged means anything...i doubt it given that no other amp in my home has ever had this problem. i have even had US amp with upconverter for 2 years. thanks everyone for your help! stay tuned! i have asked for output board transistors to be replaced.

 

[LL21]

ONE MORE THING! the Buzz still happens when the Gryphon is on MUTE and the rest of the system is OFF. additionally, under these circumstances, when you switch speaker cables...the buzz moves from L channel to R. Fortunately, the Amp has a mute button...does this necessarily eliminate the pathways that come BEFORE the mute? i am hoping it does...in which case just replace everything AFTER the mute circuit? Thanks for any help!

 

[Orb]

ONE MORE THING! the Buzz still happens when the Gryphon is on MUTE and the rest of the system is OFF. additionally, under these circumstances, when you switch speaker cables...the buzz moves from L channel to R. Fortunately, the Amp has a mute button...does this necessarily eliminate the pathways that come BEFORE the mute? i am hoping it does...in which case just replace everything AFTER the mute circuit? Thanks for any help!

Ok this reminds me of something I have heard, basically it was a well established UK pro/home electronics manufacturer and you would get a buzz from the speakers when the amp was muted, the issue in their case was to do with a different manufacturer's XLR cable - I kid you not.
The issue could be duplicated on other models from the same manufacturer but changing XLR cable to something else cleared the problem, turns out something was a bit naughty in the XLR cable design.
I tend to trust this as they have sold many amps in the pro world (using XLR mostly) and this was the 1st time ever they had been made aware of this issue.
I appreciate you do not have any other components on or even the interconnect connected, but the simularity is very striking to your buzz situation.

When you swapped speaker cables, how did you do this, was is just at amp end or more involved?
I really do not think this is the whole answer, but worth ticking off other possibilities that may have aggravated a faulty situation.
Thanks
Orb

 

[LL21]

I swapped speaker cables at the back of the amp only. and the amp was connected to the rest of the system when i swapped...but the system was entirely off other than the amp. On a separate occasion, the entire amp was disconnected from the system...only speaker cables to the speakers...and it still happened...but i did not switch speaker cables.

 

[LL21]

OK! So the amp is coming back having been completely disassembled and put back together...could not replicate the buzz! The distributor ran it for 180 hours straight at 120% of recommended maxmimum power into a 1ohm load...and also coordinated with Gryphon directly...it never manifested the buzz. ugh!!! so now what?

They suggested: a) does the CJ being SE allow too much RFI from Wifi? b) does the Velodyne being run off the 2nd set of SE outs from the CJ pre do something? (remember - i did say that it typically happens after movies...which is when i set the Sub setting to a much more intensive load)

They recommended i look for a high quality SE-XLR transformer (Audio Research BL-1) which was 500 brand-new `10 years ago...and actually go SE to XLR and then XLR into the Antileon to shield from RF or other potential interference.

Any thoughts on this? thanks for your continued help!

 

[Orb]

What about the crackling you heard as well lloyd?

If no problems were identified and they did a thorough job of testing the output stage then I guess you come back to possibly what I experienced (for buzzing anyway), which for me came back to the interconnect cable.

I guess test mute-buzz when you get it back, completely swap cables between left and right (to see if it moves with cable instead of amp channel).
If problems continue with buzz not moving, then remove the sub and associated cables.
You got a spare preamp to try very temporarily?
BTW I forgot to ask, does buzzing occur in both or one speaker with mute?
I doubt these are the probable cause but its worth going through some hoops to tick some possibilities.
Thanks
Orb

 

[LL21]

Hi Orb,

When the buzz last occurred, i immediately ran over to mute the amp, and the buzz continued unaffected like nothing happened. Always in the Left channel. however, as soon as i changed the bias setting, the buzz "winked out"...almost like if you change some electrical element, the cause of the buzz gets interrupted and stops. Someone said static electricity?...given the fact that no sound signal should be able to pass thru a pre amp mute AND amp mute, it has to be some kind of electrical conductivity being passed to the speaker via the speaker cable, no?