First trials of active horn speaker

[morricab]

Nasality due to material with no consideration to throat size and cut off and profile Is ridiculous unless you want to pedal only wooden horns

I told you all of that was considered…what more does one have to say to you??

 

[morricab]

Your lack of experience is shining through like the tone from a wooden horn. Or is it plastic? Either way like one where the driver and horn cut off is the same.

Is this the same technical understanding based on which you said the horning TT and American sound are similar design

You know nothing and purport to tell others that they lack experience…please show me examples of your last two or three horn speaker designs. Go crawl back under your rock…you sir are a troll.

 

[bonzo75]

You know nothing and purport to tell others that they lack experience…please show me examples of your last two or three horn speaker designs. Go crawl back under your rock…you sir are a troll.

then stop spreading falsehoods that vintage horns honk and materials cause honk. Vintage horns are metal or wood. You are not even consistent in your lies

 

[morricab]

nasality often occurs in driver horn combos where the driver is forced to operate outside it´s comfort range
horn material is not part of that equation

Horn material most certainly affects and Colors the sound. I am very clearly operating this horn/driver combo in its comfort zone. 1800 hz when the horn maintains its performance down to 800hz and the compression driver as well. Even at 1000hz it was fine. It could be inherent in the horn profile due to HOMs. Go look up the data on the 18 Sound XT1464 and Beyma CP755TI and you will see I am using them in an appropriate range.

 

[morricab]

then stop spreading falsehoods that vintage horns honk and materials cause honk. Vintage horns are metal or wood. You are not even consistent in your lies

They do, not all but many. It has more to do with the horn design but materials play a role and you know this. Why do you think people are using the Klug WOODEN multi-cellular horns as a replacement for the old metal ones? They sound much smoother.

I have been telling no lies so there is no worries about consistency…your trolling, however, is very consistent…

 

[bonzo75]

Horn material most certainly affects and Colors the sound. I am very clearly operating this horn/driver combo in its comfort zone. 1800 hz when the horn maintains its performance down to 800hz and the compression driver as well. Even at 1000hz it was fine. It could be inherent in the horn profile due to HOMs. Go look up the data on the 18 Sound XT1464 and Beyma CP755TI and you will see I am using them in an appropriate range.

even if that was right, then all of you have established is that 18 sound profiling has a problem. How do you know it won’t happen if they make that same horn with wood?

 

[bonzo75]

They do, not all but many. It has more to do with the horn design but materials play a role and you know this. Why do you think people are using the Klug WOODEN multi-cellular horns as a replacement for the old metal ones? They sound much smoother.

and the Vitavox metal horn sounds better than Klug wood horn which sounds better than Altec metal horn. On an Altec speaker and driver. But Vitavox metal horn is hardly available and klug horns easily are, inexpensive. Which, on this forum, I started publicising btw doubt you have heard them

 

[bonzo75]

I have heard plastic colouration from a plaster of Paris JMLC with the BMS driver. The driver had the plastic diaphragm. Stop blaming materials if you cannot isolate them. Also each material can be used to make a bad horn if it resonates or has a poor throat. Wood causes many colouration including deadening (the music not the resonance) and homogenisation

 

[morricab]

and the Vitavox metal horn sounds better than Klug wood horn which sounds better than Altec metal horn. On an Altec speaker and driver. But Vitavox metal horn is hardly available and klug horns easily are, inexpensive. Which, on this forum, I started publicising btw doubt you have heard them

I have heard Klug ALTECs from a guy in France, so you are wrong…again. The Vitavox is a completely different horn! You want to compare apples to oranges and then mix in other factors as well? No wonder you are lost and can’t follow a simple progression. You tell the effect of materials by using the SAME horn of two different materials…then it is clear that wood works better than undamped metal.
If you damp the metal or plastic horn (especially thin ones that will resonate) then you might take most of the issues…or not.
Why do you throw in something irrelevant like the Vitavox horn? It’s mostly wood I think anyway.

Look at Cessaro, they went from wood to some very hard composite because they claimed it made a huge improvement…I know Ralph from Cessaro and talked with him about it because I was curious. Wood has coloration of course but it is a nice consonant with music coloration. He wanted that gone for even more neutrality. He did not want the other coloration from metal or plastic

 

[bonzo75]

I have heard Klug ALTECs from a guy in France, so you are wrong…again. The Vitavox is a completely different horn! You want to compare apples to oranges and then mix in other factors as well?

The Vitavox 4 cell metal horn can be used with an Altec. That’s what is playing in my videos of Misho’s system. And compared it to the klug wood. I threw it in to show metal > wood > metal. Not about material

 

[morricab]

I have heard plastic colouration from a plaster of Paris JMLC with the BMS driver. The driver had the plastic diaphragm. Stop blaming materials if you cannot isolate them. Also each material can be used to make a bad horn if it resonates or has a poor throat. Wood causes many colouration including deadening (the music not the resonance) and homogenisation

I never blamed anything…your attempts to “stick it to me” are getting absurd. I made a hypothesis that the material, but more precisely the thickness of the material COULD be the source of nasality. I further stated I would damp the horns (Das Gut Ohre suggested putting it in a sand damped box…clearly I am not alone in my thinking) to see IF it went away. If not, then it could be related to throat exit angles of the driver and horn…something I can’t test or fix. However, this combo has been successfully used by other DIYers, maybe they are less sensitive to the nasality.

 

[morricab]

The Vitavox 4 cell metal horn can be used with an Altec. That’s what is playing in my videos of Misho’s system. And compared it to the klug wood

It’s a DIFFERENT horn design! We are talking about materials influence…never mind, you clearly don’t get how you are convoluting factors. It’s clear you don’t know how to form a hypothesis and test for falsification.

 

[bonzo75]

You tell the effect of materials by using the SAME horn of two different materials…then it is clear that wood works better than undamped metal.

This is exactly what I asked in a previous post. What is the process to come to conclusion about metal. I haven’t seen the above done for different drivers. Ideally you need to take a horn that has been voiced with composite horn material and sounds good, with wood. You then need to replace a wood horn that sounds good with composite. Then you will know

 

[morricab]

This is exactly what I asked in a previous post. What is the process to come to conclusion about metal. I haven’t seen the above done for different drivers. Ideally you need to take a horn that has been voiced with composite horn material and sounds good, with wood. You then need to replace a wood horn that sounds good with composite. Then you will know

No, if the wood horn sounds good..then I use it to listen to music.

 

[Solypsa]

As far as materials go I reckon:

Metal has a history ( WE, Klangfilm etc )

Wood has a following ( easy to shape with hand tools etc not too resonant)

But various plastics tend to be dismissed as sounding ...err... Plastic. Not saying @morricab is doing that as he actually bought said plastic horns

Even for comp drivers ( phenolic sounds like ....err... Plastic )

Kinda funny.

 

[morricab]

As far as materials go I reckon:

Metal has a history ( WE, Klangfilm etc )

Wood has a following ( easy to shape with hand tools etc not too resonant)

But various plastics tend to be dismissed as sounding ...err... Plastic. Not saying @morricab is doing that as he actually bought said plastic horns

Even for comp drivers ( phenolic sounds like ....err... Plastic )

Kinda funny.

Indeed. Even though Be is all the rage these days, I find that I really find the sound of good Ti diaphragm drivers to be excellent.

 

[Argonaut]

Solid Wood Western Electric 16a

Why didn’t they make the 16a horn in solid wood 90 years ago? The Western Electric 16a horn was manufactured in steel yet the patent mentions wood, steel, or any other appropriate materials. Howeve…

13audio.com

“ The 16a was certainly the right candidate, but its metal resonating sound just doesn’t work for anyone who has grown accustomed to a big solid wood horn.”

 

[bonzo75]

Solid Wood Western Electric 16a

Why didn’t they make the 16a horn in solid wood 90 years ago? The Western Electric 16a horn was manufactured in steel yet the patent mentions wood, steel, or any other appropriate materials. Howeve…

13audio.com

So? the 16a was metal. The 12, 13,15 was wood. WE had both. And people preferred both, one, or the other. That’s the whole point. I have heard them all liked them all. Tim has his own preference. And that was one example of a metal horn, Altec and Vitavox are different, one better than the other. You should buy what Roy Gregory likes and just link to his reviews to justify

 

[Robh3606]

Indeed. Even though Be is all the rage these days, I find that I really find the sound of good Ti diaphragm drivers to be excellent.

Hello

I have both coated/damped Ti and Be. I like both. It would require a driver change but the aquaplas coated JBL Ti diaphragms are really smooth and extended. JBL uses aquaplas on aluminum, magnesium, Beryllium and Titanium and it helps. You end up with a significantly cleaner CSD measurement. Just another option.

Glad you are having fun!

Rob

 

[morricab]

Hello

I have both coated/damped Ti and Be. I like both. It would require a driver change but the aquaplas coated JBL Ti diaphragms are really smooth and extended. JBL uses aquaplas on aluminum, magnesium, Beryllium and Titanium and it helps. You end up with a significantly cleaner CSD measurement. Just another option.

Glad you are having fun!

Rob

What Beyma did was marry the Ti diaphragm with a Mylar surround to reduce breakup. The highs are quite pure and smooth as a result. Radian does the same with their Aluminum diaphragms.