DSLR for serious Photography

[FrantzM]

Hi

I am really behind the curve when it comes to Digital Cameras. I was a professional photographer when I was in college and did professional jobs up to 1993 then I just dropped photography altogether ..coming back slowly .. Back in the days difference between cameras weren't that great .. The film was what made the difference. That you used a Canon or a Nikon or Leica wouldn't be that much different on a print .. True what you got with a larger format say a 2 1/4 x 2 1/4 (6 x6 cm) 6 would be clearly superior with the same film to what you got with 35 mm ... but ...
Now there is no more film and the sensors are for the most part parts and parcel of the compact computer the cameras have become more important .. My Question thus .. Are they that mch different for the average user? What we would call a serious photographer? I know there always be debate about the ultimate but .. really can even a seasoned amateur photographer see much difference between t a 16 megapixel and a 21 MP on even a 8 x 10 print ...
I am about to commit to serious Digital SLR in a few months .. I need it to be full frame sensor, rugged body with good reliability track record,low noise, great batteries life.....and also what printer would you recommend?
Before you shoot away, i have become very dollar sensitive these past few years. I am not interested in features I will never used, like the possibility of 20 image per second rapid capture ... or WiFi streaming on the camera So I want to stay under $3K for a solid body with a good 35~105 mm 2.8/3.5 lens ... I am also an old fashion type of Photographer and believe the best way to take picture is to hold the camera to your eyes or to use a waist level viewfinder .. The new style of looking at a viewfinder doesn't seem to make of the camera and extension of your eye nor is it the best way to hold a camera steady as to provide the sharpest pictures ... so i would like interchangeable viewfinders if these exist... Now yes you can shoot away ,

 

[beek]

Nikon D700 going down in price cause of D800, Dont get a cheap slow lens.

 

[amirm]

Like you Frantz, I was heavily into photography in 1980s and then abandoned it completely until about 5 years ago. At that time, Digital had just crossed over the quality line relative to film although the fights were still brewing. All of that came to an end a couple of years later as cameras went above 10 megapixels with superb signal to noise ratio. Today, just about any DSLR produces superb quality.

My favorite camera is the Canon 5D series. They just announced the series III at 21 megapixels and superb set of features. Its list price is where your budget is and I suspect initially it will sell for that amount. But shortly after, the price should drop.

Here is a thought. Steve Williams wants to upgrade to series III. Maybe you can buy his series II from him? I think the shutter life is 200,000 or so and I doubt he has used it that much. My series 1 is 12 megapixels and I have done poster sized enlargements from it. So his should be even better.

The viewfinders on the 5D are quite good. Not to the level of the pro bodies but very good. Waist level finders are not that popular anymore since you can see the image immediately on the LCD.

My favorite Canon lens is the 24-105 IS L F4.0.

BTW, you are going to *love* taking pictures now. All the things that made me give up photography are gone. I learned more about taking pictures in digital in three months than I did in years of shooting film. The feedback loop is so fast. You can experiment so much more. On a typical wildlife shoot, I come back with 1000+ images. So it is easy to see what worked and what didn't. And of course, you don't miss the right shot. And of course, what you can do in just a few minutes on a computer to improve an image is just a miracle.

 

[garylkoh]

Frantz, you will love getting back into photography now. I think that the progress curve accelerated in the past 3 years, and now, the resolution of the new full-frame cameras at 20+ MP is into the realm of at least Ektachrome 100 (if not yet Kodachrome 64). What took me hours and days in the darkroom I can do in 10 minutes and repeatedly using Photoshop (and I have a 12-year old copy). I've been a photographer since I was 10 years old with a Kodak 155X and my father's Rolleiflex (published since I was 11 when one of my pictures was chosen for the school magazine).

I've gone through most of the Japanese brands, but my last 3 DSLR's were all Canon (even though I ended up with Olympus as my preferred film camera). Currently using the 5D Mk II, with no itch to upgrade. Like Amir, my favourite lens is the Canon 24-105 L with IS. If you don't need the latest, prices on the 5D Mk II should now be falling with the Mk III announced.

 

[Syntax]

... So I want to stay under $3K for a solid body with a good 35~105 mm 2.8/3.5 lens ... I am also an old fashion type of Photographer and believe the best way to take picture is to hold the camera to your eyes or to use a waist level viewfinder ..

The best pics are coming from the eye and fantasy of the Photographer. The Camera is only a tool loaded with technical features.
Most common are units from Canon and Nikon. Both are good. Nikon made a much better job with low light sensitivity and very sharp pics in dark conditions than any other company. Their D700 or D3 are a class of its own when you do street photography. One of their best lenses ever is the discontinued - metal frame - AF-D 2.8/35-70mm, this combination is outstanding.

 

[JackD201]

Nikon D700 going down in price cause of D800, Dont get a cheap slow lens.

D700 user here. No plans of upgrading.

Some shots taken from our last family vacation

My attempt at Product shots using only room lights. This pic is dedicated to Jim and Marty

Had to throw in an expensive 6 guage cable in there just for you Frantz. LOL. Just kidding. You know I love you buddy!

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Hey Jack - I didn't know you were a snowboarder! LOL!

 

[Syntax]

Shot made right out of the bag...resized to 200kb

 

[Syntax]

The Palace Hotel

San Francisco


That pic is a good example what the Nikon Sensor can do with various light conditions (downsize to 300kb).
Shot right out of the Bag ...Lens AFD 2.8/35-70mm / ISO 800 / f 2.8 / 1/125s / 0 EV (--> no correction)

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Wow! Those are some amazing shots Syntax! Thanks for sharing!

 

[JackD201]

Hey Jack - I didn't know you were a snowboarder! LOL!

I took that shot from a stretcher wearing a neck brace LOL

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

I took that shot from a stretcher wearing a neck brace LOL

I hope they gave you a nice shot of Cognac to ease the pain! Haha!

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

I do not have access to any of these cameras right now and it sems the consensus is between the Canon D% and the Nikon D7-800 ... I have a few more questions. Back in the days I always found the differences between cameras to bethose of ergonomics .. I loved Nikon necasue fo the breadth f lenses and particular quality of some of their lenses: The 55 micro-Nikkor , the 85mm 1.8 and the 105 mm f 2.5 were my favorite go-to lenses.. yet I never really liked the visor of Nikon or Canon for that matter.. I prefered the visor of the Leica cameras and even better the immediacy of the Leica M viewfinders. I did practice the zone systemand am a rather patient and deliberate photographer .. I am not about to take 500 pictures and leave the best to sheer luck although luck has to do with some pictures .. Between the Canon and Nikon whichones has a very good viso/viewfinder..
And what decent printer your recommend. i come from the dark ages literally , I had a full fledge Darkroom with all the gadget you camn remember including a 4 x 5 enlarger.. I would like to print up to 11 x 14 wouldn't mind 16 x 20 if not prohibitive and would like to beable to drop at Wall mart and buy the supplies although Amazon.com would do it for me.
Thanks in advance

And Syntax great pictures ...

Jack .. You could have a least sent me a picture of your speakers ... a cable !! A Cable you know Cables make no difference in imaging

 

[Steve Williams]

I sold my 5D Mk ll

BTW Amir the 24-105 L4.0 is the lens which comes with the kit at $4300

 

[JackD201]

Hi

I do not have access to any of these cameras right now and it sems the consensus is between the Canon D% and the Nikon D7-800 ... I have a few more questions. Back in the days I always found the differences between cameras to bethose of ergonomics .. I loved Nikon necasue fo the breadth f lenses and particular quality of some of their lenses: The 55 micro-Nikkor , the 85mm 1.8 and the 105 mm f 2.5 were my favorite go-to lenses.. yet I never really liked the visor of Nikon or Canon for that matter.. I prefered the visor of the Leica cameras and even better the immediacy of the Leica M viewfinders. I did practice the zone systemand am a rather patient and deliberate photographer .. I am not about to take 500 pictures and leave the best to sheer luck although luck has to do with some pictures .. Between the Canon and Nikon whichones has a very good viso/viewfinder..
And what decent printer your recommend. i come from the dark ages literally , I had a full fledge Darkroom with all the gadget you camn remember including a 4 x 5 enlarger.. I would like to print up to 11 x 14 wouldn't mind 16 x 20 if not prohibitive and would like to beable to drop at Wall mart and buy the supplies although Amazon.com would do it for me.
Thanks in advance

And Syntax great pictures ...

Jack .. You could have a least sent me a picture of your speakers ... a cable !! A Cable you know Cables make no difference in imaging

RFOL!!!!! I knew you'd like that one! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[amirm]

Hi

I do not have access to any of these cameras right now and it sems the consensus is between the Canon D% and the Nikon D7-800 ... I have a few more questions. Back in the days I always found the differences between cameras to bethose of ergonomics .. I loved Nikon necasue fo the breadth f lenses and particular quality of some of their lenses: The 55 micro-Nikkor , the 85mm 1.8 and the 105 mm f 2.5 were my favorite go-to lenses.. yet I never really liked the visor of Nikon or Canon for that matter.. I prefered the visor of the Leica cameras and even better the immediacy of the Leica M viewfinders. I did practice the zone systemand am a rather patient and deliberate photographer .. I am not about to take 500 pictures and leave the best to sheer luck although luck has to do with some pictures .. Between the Canon and Nikon whichones has a very good viso/viewfinder..
And what decent printer your recommend. i come from the dark ages literally , I had a full fledge Darkroom with all the gadget you camn remember including a 4 x 5 enlarger.. I would like to print up to 11 x 14 wouldn't mind 16 x 20 if not prohibitive and would like to beable to drop at Wall mart and buy the supplies although Amazon.com would do it for me.
Thanks in advance

I think you need to go and hold both cameras in your hand and see which one feels right to you. While there are some people who have used both systems (and switched from one to the other), there is not a lot of them and at any rate, how you feel about them may be different.

Also, if you are into landscape work, Canon wide angle lenses traditionally have not been good. And it seems Nikon figured out flash photography long time ago and Canon has always struggled.

Like you, I used to envy Nikon users in the 1980s because they were clearly ahead in many areas. Fast forward to decades later and Canon was the first one to outfit a lot of their lenses with image stabilization. Nikon did a few and as of late added more but their prices in supertelephoto where my interest ran, was a lot higher than Canon. The gap is closed a lot but if you ever go out to a sports arena or wildlife shoot, 80% are white Canon lenses vs black Nikon. Reason is simple: in the world now dominated by electronics, Canon has an advantage due to its size and level of R&D across many product lines. Nikon is a much smaller company with essentially this one market segment.

So pick your favorite lens and accessories as you have done and the camera body and go and see them in person. For additional research, the Fred Miranda forum is great: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/board/2. Folks are friendly and the skill level and knowledge is very high.

Here is a shot on my now "obsolete" Canon 1D Mark II at just 8 megapixels. Shot using 500mm lens with a 2X teleconverter at an effective forcal length of 1000 mm (20X magnification)

 

[Steve Williams]

That photo is simply a masterpiece Amir

 

[amirm]

Thanks Steve. The bird did most of the work. I was just there to push the button .

 

[Steve Williams]

what was the shutter speed and F stop used on that shot. Where was it taken?

 

[amirm]

It was shot "wide open" which in this case is F8 because the lens was 500mm F4 L and I used a 2X teleconverter to get to 1000mm which means the f stop also doubles to f8. The viewfinder gets fairly dark and you are trying to shoot a subject that is probably 1000 years away if not more.

The shutter speed is 1/800 sec, ISO 400.