Does Everything Make a Difference?

[jeromelang]

What has happened to this post?

 

[Geoffkait]

What has happened to this post?

You’re braver than I am, dropping Peter Belt’s name on an audio forum. CDs are not a problem in the room until you take them out. You don’t realize the harm until you remove them. The soundstage opens up like a can of sardines. By the time we wake up (like Rumplestiltskin) to these esoteric issues it’s too late, they’ve become completely integrated into the system. I am not so gullible that I believed this initially but I’ve done the experiment many times in the past and recently.

 

[wil]

You’re braver than I am, dropping Peter Belt’s name on an audio forum. CDs are not a problem in the room until you take them out. You don’t realize the harm until you remove them. The soundstage opens up like a can of sardines. By the time we wake up (like Rumplestiltskin) to these esoteric issues it’s too late, they’ve become completely integrated into the system. I am not so gullible that I believed this either, however I’ve done it many times in the past 20 years including recently lo these past several months.

Geoffkait, You have stated many times that the existence of CDs in a room is detrimental to sound quality in a room. Maybe I’ve missed it, but do you have any ideas as to why this would be so?

And, the Rumplestiltskin effect of waking up too late to the adverse effects of cds because they have become “integrated into the system” ………. begs for at least a made-up explanation.

 

[Geoffkait]

Geoffkait, You have stated many times that the existence of CDs in a room is detrimental to sound quality in a room. Maybe I’ve missed it, but do you have any ideas as to why this would be so?

And, the Rumplestiltskin effect of waking up too late to the adverse effects of cds because they have become “integrated into the system” ………. begs for at least a made-up explanation.

As I commented recently on the fuse and cable directionality thread, currently in hiatus, better sometimes not to attempt explanations, I was referring to the explanation found on the SR web site relating to how electricity works with regard to their fuses. What is actually needed here is for some brave soul to remove CDs from his room and report the results. Hint, hint.

By the way, I have stated that many things in audiophiles’ rooms hurt the sound abd have provided prioritized lists of some of those things, on this thread. CDs are only one of those things. Generally they’re all Peter Belt type reasons.

All I meant by the Rumplestiltskin remark (ooops, I mean Rip Van Winkle, wrong fairy tale) ) was that sometimes we insert some new thing into the system without giving it a second thought, then come to find out years later it actually hurt the sound, or was not in the right location. CDs being bad for sound is a pretty new concept on audio sites, that’s why almost everyone has a tone of CDs,cLPs, books and/or videos in his room. But you can’t blame them, they just never got the memo. Tube Traps are good example of things most people probably put in the corner and forget about them, then find out many years later they hurt the sound sometimes when placed in precisely in the corner. This is a conventional physics issue whereas the CDs in the room is more of a quantum physics issue, generally speaking.

 

[jeromelang]

Long ago I was experimenting with wrapping cd discs with aluminium foil (and found 2 distinctively different sonic consequences depending on whether the glossy side or the matt side of the aluminium foil was in contact with the disc) when I unwittingly discovered leaving the used aluminium foil in the room caused my audio system's sound to be degraded.

I subsequently found that any extraneous metallic objects not actively involved with the sound reproduction when left in the proximity of the audio system can affect the system's sound.

There is a well known physics explanation for all of this phenomenon - eddy current.

 

[Geoffkait]

Long ago I was experimenting with wrapping cd discs with aluminium foil (and found 2 distinctively different sonic consequences depending on whether the glossy side or the matt side of the aluminium foil was in contact with the disc) when I unwittingly discovered leaving the used aluminium foil in the room caused my audio system's sound to be degraded.

I subsequently found that any extraneous metallic objects not actively involved with the sound reproduction when left in the proximity of the audio system can affect the system's sound.

There is a well known physics explanation for all of this phenomenon - eddy current.

Not sure I go along with your detective work. Eddy currents are indeed well known physical phenomenon but they require the metallic discs to be in the presence of magnetic fields. Current in an aluminum disc without presence of magnetic field disobeys physics since that would be an example of perpetual motion machine. Conservation of energy.

So, I suspect the answer lies elsewhere for what you observed. Also, note that I usually include CDs in the general category of media in the room that are bad for the sound, to whit: CDs, LPs, audio and book cassettes, VHS tapes, DVDs, paperback and hard cover books. Another nail in the coffin of the Eddy current hypothesis is the fact currents are already in the room, much stronger currents, running through all the house AC wiring, audio power cords, audio cables, electric cords of any lamps, computers, appliances in the room.

Thus, the explanation for why CDs in the room hurt the sound must lie elsewhere. It’s a very simple experiment. Take all CDs out of the room, then listen to a favorite recording. To confirm your observation, bring the CDs back in the room and listen again. As I’ve commented before on this thread, metals in the room affect the sound, aluminum, steel, chrome, alloys, metal chairs, etc. Even copper, which is ironic since most cables and cords use copper conductors, not to mention all the copper wiring in house AC and in electronics. No rest for weary.

Eddy current demo using aluminum disc and magnetic field,

Eddy Currents Demo

 

[jeromelang]

Not sure I go along with your detective work. Eddy currents are indeed well known physical phenomenon but they require the metallic discs to be in the presence of magnetic fields. Current in an aluminum disc without presence of magnetic field disobeys physics since that would be an example of perpetual motion machine. Conservation of energy.

So, I suspect the answer lies elsewhere for what you observed. Also, note that I usually include CDs in the general category of media in the room that are bad for the sound, to whit: CDs, LPs, audio and book cassettes, VHS tapes, DVDs, paperback and hard cover books. Another nail in the coffin of the Eddy current hypothesis is the fact currents are already in the room, much stronger currents, running through all the house AC wiring, audio power cords, audio cables, electric cords of any lamps, computers, appliances in the room.

Thus, the explanation for why CDs in the room hurt the sound must lie elsewhere. It’s a very simple experiment. Take all CDs out of the room, then listen to a favorite recording. To confirm your observation, bring the CDs back in the room and listen again.

Eddy current demo using aluminum disc and magnetic field,

Eddy Currents Demo

You totally forgot the elephant in the room.

The audio system in the room is the source of those magnetic fields.

 

[Geoffkait]

You totally forgot the elephant in the room.

The audio system in the room is the source of those magnetic fields.

I don’t think so, the strength of magnetic fields obey inverse square law. For electric dipoles it’s the inverse cube law. There are no magnetic fields generated anywhere by the system that would extend more than a foot from their source, maybe not more than a few inches, and the strength of the fields is rather weak to begin with. But rather than engage in technical debate, can I suggest simply removing the CDs from the room and listen? Even better, try removing only a few at a time, 10 or 20. See if you can spot the difference. Same goes for LPs in the room.

What’s next, the Earth’s magnetic field?

As I already described, the primary classical physics type explanation for the bad sound CDs create on sound is the electric static charge that accumulates on the polycarbonate layer and is very difficult to remove.

First climber: Wow, this is great! What a view, from the top of Everest!
Second climber: Relax, we’re only at base camp.

 

[wil]

Not sure I go along with your detective work. Eddy currents are indeed well known physical phenomenon but they require the metallic discs to be in the presence of magnetic fields. Current in an aluminum disc without presence of magnetic field disobeys physics since that would be an example of perpetual motion machine. Conservation of energy.

So, I suspect the answer lies elsewhere for what you observed. Also, note that I usually include CDs in the general category of media in the room that are bad for the sound, to whit: CDs, LPs, audio and book cassettes, VHS tapes, DVDs, paperback and hard cover books. Another nail in the coffin of the Eddy current hypothesis is the fact currents are already in the room, much stronger currents, running through all the house AC wiring, audio power cords, audio cables, electric cords of any lamps, computers, appliances in the room.

Thus, the explanation for why CDs in the room hurt the sound must lie elsewhere. It’s a very simple experiment. Take all CDs out of the room, then listen to a favorite recording. To confirm your observation, bring the CDs back in the room and listen again. As I’ve commented before on this thread, metals in the room affect the sound, aluminum, steel, chrome, alloys, metal chairs, etc. Even copper, which is ironic since most cables and cords use copper conductors, not to mention all the copper wiring in house AC and in electronics. No rest for weary.

Eddy current demo using aluminum disc and magnetic field,

Eddy Currents Demo

Please share the theory as to why all “media” in the room, regardless of material, cd’s, vinyl, paper books and magazines will have a detrimental effect on sound?

 

[Geoffkait]

Please share the theory as to why all “media” in the room, regardless of material, cd’s, vinyl, paper books and magazines will have a detrimental effect on sound?

You already asked that question. I answered already. My new Super Quantum CD Demag addresses both classical physics and quantum mechanics issues.

“We got to stand together on common ground, or we all fall down.” - Old audiophile axiom

 

[wil]

You already asked that question. I answered already.

I’m specifically asking why you think “media” regardless of physical material composition effects sound? Or is this all an attempt at satire?

 

[Geoffkait]

I already explained, it’s not (rpt not) a classics physics issue, it’s a quantum mechanical issue. No, I’m not hot dogging you. Only the electric fields on CDs issue is a classical physics issue. The issue with books is also a quantum mechanics issue. Furthermore as I’ve commented on previously there are a great many things in listening rooms that hurt the sound that are quantum mechanical in the way they operate. Even though all these things are in no way in the signal path anywhere in the system, not house AC, speakers, electronics,, acoustic waves, etc.

An attempt at satire? What possible reason would I have to do that?

Here are examples of what I’m referring to, but certainly not all by any means,

Cellphones
Watches
Clocks
Radios
TVs
Computers
Laptops
Unused audio gear
Musical instruments

 

[Robh3606]

As I already described, the primary classical physics type explanation for the bad sound CDs create on sound is the electric static charge that accumulates on the polycarbonate layer and is very difficult to remove.

The charges obey the same inverse square law as a magnetic field.

So have you tried removing carpets, wool afghan's or baloon's and other static generators?

If you charge up a balloon and send it around the room in it's travels does it shift the sound stage?

Rob

 

[Geoffkait]

Enter the Mind Lamp from Psyleron,

MILLION-DOLLAR IDEA: Lamp That Can Read Your Mind - It Turns The Color You're Thinking About

www.businessinsider.com

 

[Geoffkait]

The charges obey the same inverse square law as a magnetic field.

So have you tried removing carpets, wool afghan's or baloon's and other static generators?

If you charge up a balloon and send it around the room in it's travels does it shift the sound stage?

Rob

The E fields on CDs I’m referring to interfer with the CD laser, which is in very close proximity to Mr. CD. Recall the laser beam is electromagnetic, meaning it contains both E and B fields.

The fact/hypothesis that CDs in the room hurts the sound is not a classic physics issue.

I pointed out already just how many things in the room have the potential to store static electric charges. I also already pointed out my new Super Quantum Demagnetizer does all that - the classical physics and the QM.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...if that phenomenon re: media removal exists, I would think it was due to an impact on sound waves: reflections, delaying, etc.

Admittedly, I struggle to associate its presence/absence with changes in static or other charges. Happy to be wrong. Happens every day.

 

[Geoffkait]

...if that phenomenon re: media removal exists, I would think it was due to an impact on sound waves: reflections, delaying, etc.

Admittedly, I struggle to associate its presence/absence with changes in static or other charges. Happy to be wrong. Happens every day.

It can be easily proven that it has nothing to do with any of that. Placing diffusers, dampers, absorbers, etc. in the wrong location hurts the sound too. Most collections of CDs, LPs, books, etc. in the room are arbitrary, no particular method, so by inspection it can be proven. Also by experiment.

Better read up on the Mind Lamp the link to which I just posted a few minutes ago. Hint, mind matter interaction. Another hint or tease, what you’re missing is a wealth of hidden information, intricate detail, inner dynamics, realism, stupendous dynamics, air! and a soundstage as big as Kansas. I’m from the future.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...I had a "mood ring" in high school. Was that a proto-type?

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...BTW: that article doesn't really tell me anything, other than what Shakespeare wrote: more things on heaven and earth...etc.

The lamp seems kind of vague, but they tell me women will sync menstrual cycles over time if in close proximity. Or did we debunk that? I can't keep up with it all. Pluto is a planet. Nope. Life moves on. I'm open minded, but I can't be chasing down every tiny mole that pops up. Music sounds so delicious over here I can barely imagine it getting better.

 

[Geoffkait]

...BTW: that article doesn't really tell me anything, other than what Shakespeare wrote: more things on heaven and earth...etc.

The lamp seems kind of vague, but they tell me women will sync menstrual cycles over time if in close proximity. Or did we debunk that? I can't keep up with it all. Pluto is a planet. Nope. Life moves on. I'm open minded, but I can't be chasing down every tiny mole that pops up. Music sounds so delicious over here I can barely imagine it getting better.

You can’t debunk what isn’t bunk. - Anonymous

The randomness of the electrical device in the lamp (random number generator) that ensures completely random display of colors can be affected by humans in the room, making the display of colors non-random. The company Psyleron, by the way, is an offshoot of the Princeton Engineering School “renegades,” including the former Dean of the Engineering School.