Do you trust your ears?

[Johnny Vinyl]

That's the thing; people will buy anything nowadays, even if it's pure crap.

Movies that completely suck can make several hundred of $millions in total revenues.
RAP music is a multi-billion dollars industry.
Paintings that sell for hundred of $ millions are totally ludicrous.
Audio cables ....

Voodoo-magic is a business. ...So yes I'd rather trust my own ears at the end.

Maybe you shouldn't as I've seen some of the music you posted! LOLOLOLOL! (I'm kidding).

 

[mbskeam]

yes.

not everybody hears the same way, what may sound good to you may not sound good to me.....

I can hear a difference between systems, they don't sound bad, just different.
when I close my eyes when listening and get goosebumps, that when I know its good......

"In reality, it only matters what it sounds like to YOU"

 

[amirm]

Do you trust your senses eg. Hearing, seeing, tasting, feeling, etc?

I can only answer that for my vision. Reason? It is the other sense which I have put to test and failed at seeing the "truth." Have not had the experience with the other senses to know how often I am right. Do you trust your vision 100% Myles? If so, are you immune to these failures triggered by how our vision+brain work?

Based on watching many episodes of "Brain games" TV show above, I have realized that my vision is not to be trusted either.

I always find it curious that people trust what they see but don't trust what they hear. On a primal level, I think that we hear things way before we see them.

How much we trust each sense is a function of how often we have found them to be wrong. To know that the answer is "wrong" requires knowing the "truth." The truth is given to us in the above video tests. In our audio lives however, we often or most of the time don't know the truth. When we hear the difference between two wires, what determines if we are right or not? Is it not possible that there is no difference yet we heard it? If so, how did you arrive at the percentage of the time you are right?

I used to think no blind tests were necessary for speakers. Big differences must mean sighted tests work. Then I take the test blind and I realize I was way off. Until that one pivotal moment, I was completely oblivious to that fact. I "trusted" my ears when I should not have. I only knew that after the curtains opened and I realized I would have voted differently with it always that way.

Until such time that you have tested yourself enough times where the "truth" is known and can be compared to your answers, your self-assessment that you should trust your ears is neither here, nor there. You have made up an answer for that. It has no connection to reality of how good your hearing is.

 

[MylesBAstor]

I can only answer that for my vision. Reason? It is the other sense which I have put to test and failed at seeing the "truth." Have not had the experience with the other senses to know how often I am right. Do you trust your vision 100% Myles? If so, are you immune to these failures triggered by how our vision+brain work?

Based on watching many episodes of "Brain games" TV show above, I have realized that my vision is not to be trusted either.


How much we trust each sense is a function of how often we have found them to be wrong. To know that the answer is "wrong" requires knowing the "truth." The truth is given to us in the above video tests. In our audio lives however, we often or most of the time don't know the truth. When we hear the difference between two wires, what determines if we are right or not? Is it not possible that there is no difference yet we heard it? If so, how did you arrive at the percentage of the time you are right?

I used to think no blind tests were necessary for speakers. Big differences must mean sighted tests work. Then I take the test blind and I realize I was way off. Until that one pivotal moment, I was completely oblivious to that fact. I "trusted" my ears when I should not have. I only knew that after the curtains opened and I realized I would have voted differently with it always that way.

Until such time that you have tested yourself enough times where the "truth" is known and can be compared to your answers, your self-assessment that you should trust your ears is neither here, nor there. You have made up an answer for that. It has no connection to reality of how good your hearing is.

Amir I wasn't criticizing you, just making an observation

 

[Shaffer]

For purchasing purposes I always trust my ears. What else could I use?

My feeling, exactly.

In terms in auditory perception, as a constant, I've come to the conclusion that I don't really care if the effect is real or imagined. Let me give an example: I build DIY power stuffs, if you will, when the mood strikes. There's a cord design I kinda developed that I feel is great for bass. The cord does do something, as it's able to shut down the circuit breaker in a friend's system, as soon as his sub comes on (I have dedicated lines). I also understand that it's just a power cord feeding a power supply. Does it truly matter what it does, if anything, when the system sounds better to my ears? I can understand and appreciate an academic interest in the process, but to me, personally, as an individual who only cares about playing music, such a thing is of little relevance. Ultimately.

 

[Vincent Kars]

I voted yes, what else can one do?
Next question: do you trust your perception?
My vote would be no, what else can one do?

 

[MylesBAstor]

I voted yes, what else can one do?
Next question: do you trust your perception?
My vote would be no, what else can one do?

Perception is a moving target!

 

[NorthStar]

I can only answer that for my vision. Reason? It is the other sense which I have put to test and failed at seeing the "truth." Have not had the experience with the other senses to know how often I am right. Do you trust your vision 100% Myles? If so, are you immune to these failures triggered by how our vision+brain work?

Based on watching many episodes of "Brain games" TV show above, I have realized that my vision is not to be trusted either.


How much we trust each sense is a function of how often we have found them to be wrong. To know that the answer is "wrong" requires knowing the "truth." The truth is given to us in the above video tests. In our audio lives however, we often or most of the time don't know the truth. When we hear the difference between two wires, what determines if we are right or not? Is it not possible that there is no difference yet we heard it? If so, how did you arrive at the percentage of the time you are right?

I used to think no blind tests were necessary for speakers. Big differences must mean sighted tests work. Then I take the test blind and I realize I was way off. Until that one pivotal moment, I was completely oblivious to that fact. I "trusted" my ears when I should not have. I only knew that after the curtains opened and I realized I would have voted differently with it always that way.

Until such time that you have tested yourself enough times where the "truth" is known and can be compared to your answers, your self-assessment that you should trust your ears is neither here, nor there. You have made up an answer for that. It has no connection to reality of how good your hearing is.

But Amir, if all you just said above is true, how can we trust audio reviewers? ...How much faith should we put in them?

And so, almost 80% of all voters here answered wrong! ...Because in reality the true answer should be 'No'.
It seems so simple and so complicated at the same time ....
But I can clearly see how a 'No' answer is the right answer. BTW, I voted 'Yes', of course, I'm just human, not perfect. :b

 

[treitz3]

...Because in reality the true answer should be 'No'.

Eh, perhaps for some folks. I personally do not subscribe to that theory....yet [always open to the possibility]. My ears have yet to lie to me. From hearing a capacitor failing on a right speaker whilst 20 people are critically listening while I am casually passing through the room to picking out a lossless burnt CD to the original in what was essentially a DBT. There is no "right" answer to this. Everybody is at their own spot within their own audio journey. Some [Like Bruce, Amir, Gary for quick examples] are at a much further point. The novice might think their ears are lying to them but that may just boil down to lack of training/experience in knowing what it is they are trying to listen for or too to begin with.

I trust my ears and until proven otherwise, I will still trust my ears to lead me along my audio journey. Every time.....[without exclusion] and I do mean every time I have relied upon other methods to advance my audio journey or build my rig, I have wasted my money. This may not be the case with many here. I am, however, curious to the consensuses of the membership of the WBF as to how they guide their own audio advances. Especially given the detail and extreme depth of some of the threads that cover DBT's, measurements, scientific studies and the like.

Tom

 

[audioarcher]

I voted yes. That said if you want to get technical you can not trust anyone or anything 100% of the time. Not even test equipment. Everything is fallible.

I trust my senses more the longer I have to collect data. Short A/B/A test can only get you so far. I certainly trust my own senses over anyone else's since everybody's seem to be different to some degree.

 

[NorthStar]

Me honestly thinks that Amir has made a very good point of not trusting so easily.

 

[JackD201]

Yes

If I hear a twig snap over head, I'm running for cover. I don't care if I imagined it or not. If I run, at least I can deal with that "phantom" later.

You should try living in a country with lots of coconut trees. It can rather change one's perspective.

 

[NorthStar]

Sounds travel pretty slow too, as compared to lights.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Do you trust your ears enough to isolate them from knowledge of what it is you're listening to, and have faith in them and your brain alone to differentiate/tell you how strong that difference is/whether or not that difference is "better?"

I do. But I can't answer yes to the poll because I'm almost certain that's not what yes means here.

Tim

 

[microstrip]

Surely "Can you trust your ears" is a question with a statistical answer - no one who answers yes can be sure that he was never fooled. But experience, time, and systematic use of known recordings, can help in getting a good degree of trust.

In a setup I dislike I find very difficult to find any differences. However, when the system shows some specific aspects that I really appreciate for its realism (or what I consider to be a realistic rendering of that recording) I find that things become a lot easier.

 

[RogerD]

Listening is a learning process...except for maybe the rare golden ear. Interesting that 7 have answered "no". Now "no" is not most of the time,is it lack of experience or you don't trust your judgement. How do you honestly pursue this hobby in a meaningful way and answer "NO"?

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Listening is a learning process...except for maybe the rare golden ear. Interesting that 7 have answered "no". Now "no" is not most of the time,is it lack of experience or you don't trust your judgement. How do you honestly pursue this hobby in a meaningful way and answer "NO"?

I suspect those who have answered no have answered in the contex of the many threads on WBF in which trusting one's ears has meant something very different from knowing what you like.

Tim

 

[RogerD]

I suspect those who have answered no have answered in the contex of the many threads on WBF in which trusting one's ears has meant something very different from knowing what you like.

Tim

Knowing what you like sounds "subjective". My position is "No" is a cop out. In this hobby you must listen....whether you listen well and have learned or not, or you don't trust your judgement is nothing to be ashamed of. There are many tin ears in this world.

 

[NorthStar]

Listening is a learning process...except for maybe the rare golden ear. Interesting that 7 have answered "no". Now "no" is not most of the time,is it lack of experience or you don't trust your judgement. How do you honestly pursue this hobby in a meaningful way and answer "NO"?

And that, is also a very good/valid point (question) Roger.

You can't! You got to use something you can relate to, and our ears are first in this audio hobby.
Measurements is the learning process by which we develop our hearing abilities to further improve, I think.
It is by understanding those measurements that we can advance concretely in our world of audio listening.
...And always perfect (increase) the research and development of those measuring tools better. ...In the pursuit of the ultimate musical happiness; from our ears.
Our education keeps processing, it never ends.

 

[amirm]

But Amir, if all you just said above is true, how can we trust audio reviewers? ...How much faith should we put in them?

We should not . I don't even read the subjective reviews in stereophile magazine for example.

And so, almost 80% of all voters here answered wrong! ...Because in reality the true answer should be 'No'.

The value of the poll in my opinion is what percentage of our voters fall in one camp or the other. Whether they are right in their assessment is an entirely different matter.