Do puristic designed phonostages have less functions?

[groovemaster]

Phonostages with a pure design you hardly can find on the market.
And if you find one, they often have reduced functions like, only for MM or only MC cards, few different loadings and so on.

Here you see fine combinations with nice designed record players in an elegant interior. VPI Scout and Bergmann Magne.





The AS Phonolab 1.0 from Audiospecials combines both. Modern timeless and puristic design on the front panel and if you turn it around, just the opposite. Two inputs for two record players, balanced inputs and RCA, 4 Gain steps and many different loadings. There is no cartridge on the market that won´t fit. No matter if MM or MC. The Ortofon´s SPUs like this phonostage very much because of its huge range of extra low Input loadings down to 15 Ohm.

Groovemaster

 

[tima]

Phonostages with a pure design you hardly can find on the market.

Pls say more about what "pure design" means to you.

 

[groovemaster]

The "pure Design" refers to a minimalistic front panel design although the front panel implies 5 functions. Two knobs (Recompizer), two LEDs as an indication for the Inputs 1 /2 (left /right). Plus a hidden" invisible touch" sensor beside the left LED, to switch the inputs over. That´s probaly no coincidence that the owner of the Bergman chose the AS. A nice couple.

regards
groovemaster

 

[Ron Resnick]

Aren’t some phono stages literally only gain amplification boxes with an input and an output and a power switch?

 

[groovemaster]

Aren’t some phono stages literally only gain amplification boxes with an input and an output and a power switch?

Yes!
Theese Phonostages have puristic Product design indeed. But not everyone is satisfied with the minimum technical equipment.

Some audiophiles search for reduced front panel design, for example -Bergmann- owners, without having to do with reduced technical equipment.




Groovemaster

 

[tima]

he "pure Design" refers to a minimalistic front panel design

Okay, thanks. I'd probably call that a clean or straightforward user interface.

Nowadays the trend in high-end phonostages (and preamps) seems more towards offering many bells and whistles, 'feature-loaded'. Sometimes these are accomplished via software and screens, sometimes packed with knobs and dials.





then, there's something like this:

 

[groovemaster]

Tima, that is exactly what I wanted to say. Fine examples.
Groovemaster

 

[Bobvin]

How 'bout the Doshi? A pretty clean front panel, yet loaded with features. (I'm strongly considering this amp for my own system.)

 

[garylkoh]

My philosophy is "Simple as possible, and no simpler". The purist phonostage that I designed has zero functions beyond correctly amplifying and applying the RIAA de-emphasis on the cartridge signal. Not even loading selection or gain. Any switch in the signal path detracts from the purity of it.

 

[Bobvin]

Gary, thats cool. I am naïve of the relationship of loading/capacitance/inductance etc. I believe my Benz LPS cartridge is run "wide open" as I don't have any loading going into my Einstein phono-pre. Given that, would your phono amp be a possibility for me? Sorry 'bout my ignorance on the topic, are you saying your cabling serves the purpose other designers resolve with loading options?

 

[Tango]

Manufacturers like to say pure, simple, less intervention in signal path, etc, etc. Sound pretty cool. Until you hear . Not all "pure" are created equal.

 

[Ron Resnick]

My philosophy is "Simple as possible, and no simpler". The purist phonostage that I designed has zero functions beyond correctly amplifying and applying the RIAA de-emphasis on the cartridge signal. Not even loading selection or gain. Any switch in the signal path detracts from the purity of it.

This is interesting, Gary. Is your design philosophy that the flexibility of as few as three or four loading options and two gain options is outweighed by the signal path adulteration occasioned by this flexibility?

 

[Ron Resnick]

The Aesthetix Io has DIP switch loading, and offers variable gain as an option. I have never loved DIP switches on high-end equipment. I may be wrong but they never struck me as a high-quality, high-end solution.

The Aesthetix attenuators, on the other hand, are very high-quality, discrete resistor, rotary controls.

 

[tima]

The Aesthetix Io has DIP switch loading, and offers variable gain as an option. I have never loved DIP switches on high-end equipment. I may be wrong but they never struck me as a high-quality, high-end solution.

The Aesthetix attenuators, on the other hand, are very high-quality, discrete resistor, rotary controls.

The Pass Xono and Pass X-15 phonostages also use DIP switches for the same functions.

 

[Bodhi]

My friend Paul had a Thomas Mayer phono stage which certainly is a purist design. From my POV, it's biggest disadvantage is that you really needed an SUT to accommodate multiple arm/carts as the setup options were very limited. But as far as a 'set it and forget it' phono preamp goes, it was a very nice pre.

 

[groovemaster]

Important for DIP switches as far as other switches. The quality counts. Now chinese low budget parts. Don´t save in the wrong place.

Groovemaster

 

[Solypsa]

Proper loading is a requirement. Gain structure is also important (ie how much at the phono, preamp and amp...). How one acheives this (switches, choices, soldiering iron etc.) varies but ignoring will likely yield inferior results.

 

[Folsom]

The Aesthetix Io has DIP switch loading, and offers variable gain as an option. I have never loved DIP switches on high-end equipment. I may be wrong but they never struck me as a high-quality, high-end solution.

The Aesthetix attenuators, on the other hand, are very high-quality, discrete resistor, rotary controls.

Honestly the DIPs for capacitive loading are pretty ideal. First the signal doesn’t pass through to amplification. Secondly they are very small and near the PCB/wire so they have minimal interaction with everything else (they pick up less noise).

Input resistance loading is where is where you have the signal going through to gain stages. The best way to do that is to have swappable resistors.

Any phono where you can’t adjust these two probably is very compromised unless the given settings are perfect for what you want to use.

The most suspect thing is gain knobs. They are not volume control. The thing is adjusting gain changes the behavior of a circuit - unless it was bad and continues to be bad then no one notices. And then you have to wonder where the gain is being done, and if a potentiometer is in the path of the signal. I think gain switches are fine. (Which might be rotary) They allow multiple circuits and changes between settings that don’t destabilize the gain circuit.

You can have a fairly elegant circuit with adjustments. It doesn’t rob purity of the sound. Trying to over simplify gives different results that people go placebo on, but really they usually suck.

The biggest type of predictor in sound of phono stages IMO comes from understanding stability, loops, and making good capacitor choices. Going crazy over exoticness, simplicity, etc, gain you nothing but an ego to defend when your sound isn’t stupendous.

 

[dan31]

If I didn’t have the Aesthetix Io Signature the Genesis Phono would be at the top of my list to audition. I think Gary’s design is spot on for high performance.

My Io is older with no volume controls. Loading is set by using a single resistor value with jumpers. No dip switches. No input switches. Only a single phono input RCA or XLR.

 

[garylkoh]

Gary, thats cool. I am naïve of the relationship of loading/capacitance/inductance etc. I believe my Benz LPS cartridge is run "wide open" as I don't have any loading going into my Einstein phono-pre. Given that, would your phono amp be a possibility for me? Sorry 'bout my ignorance on the topic, are you saying your cabling serves the purpose other designers resolve with loading options?

No, it's not my cable that takes over the problem of the necessity for loading. The cartridge, tonearm leads, tonearm cable and high-impedance create a RLC tank circuit. This results in a resonant peak that overloads the 1st stage amplification that is required prior to RIAA de-emphasis. My phono stage has a wide bandwidth input, and is a single stage RIAA-shaped amplification. Hence, the resonant peak is amplified at over -40dB below 1kHz. No loading necessary.

I designed this after finding out about Asian audiophiles "rolling" loading resistors for different sound like we roll tubes. Eliminating the loading resistor would result in a more transparent component.