Disappointed with Kiseki after sales experience

[Vienna]

A year ago, and after having read so many reviews for Kiseki Purple Heart I had purchased one. it’s a very musical cartridge and will do fine for no critical listenings.

I didn’t have any technical problem with that Kiseki, however it was given as a present to a guy who had purchased a Prime Signature and had asked me to set his turntable as he wanted to use an old AT MM cartridge.

That Kiseki had a channel separation of 31 dB.soon after I had purchased a second Kiseki Purple Heart to be used to my second Tonearm. The second Koseki had from the beginning channel separation issues (couldn’t get them over 24db) and only after less than 10 hours of playing, the cantilever slipped and was fallen off the cartridge while the armtone was on the armrest.

The Local dealer had sent the cartridge to Kiseki the same day for inspection with the belief that they would see the obvious, that no stress or mishandling, had caused this and get a replacement. six days later I was advised that any cantilever related issue of any nature and cause is not being covered under any warranty.

Lesson learnt and 3,000 euro were thrown in garbage bin!

 

[bonzo75]

Thanks for sharing

 

[shakti]

A year ago, and after having read so many reviews for Kiseki Purple Heart I had purchased one. it’s a very musical cartridge and will do fine for no critical listenings.

I didn’t have any technical problem with that Kiseki, however it was given as a present to a guy who had purchased a Prime Signature and had asked me to set his turntable as he wanted to use an old AT MM cartridge.

That Kiseki had a channel separation of 31 dB.soon after I had purchased a second Kiseki Purple Heart to be used to my second Tonearm. The second Koseki had from the beginning channel separation issues (couldn’t get them over 24db) and only after less than 10 hours of playing, the cantilever slipped and was fallen off the cartridge while the armtone was on the armrest.

The Local dealer had sent the cartridge to Kiseki the same day for inspection with the belief that they would see the obvious, that no stress or mishandling, had caused this and get a replacement. six days later I was advised that any cantilever related issue of any nature and cause is not being covered under any warranty.

Lesson learnt and 3,000 euro were thrown in garbage bin!

I have seen, you are from Europe, so the European legislation for warranty will apply:

https://europa.eu/youreurope/busine...s-guarantees/consumer-guarantees/index_en.htm

You have bought the Kiseki from the dealer, so he is responsible , that the product will work for two years.
He has to give the service (repair or exchange) on his cost to you.
The dealer than can refund the service to the manufacturer, but this is related to his contract to his product provider.
You couldn't car less about his service level agreement to the manufacturer/importer.

On top many manufacturers have an extended warranty with individual conditions.

According to the EU directive, you can choose in the time, when both warranties apply, which one you want to execute . In your case the manufacturer warranty does not cover the situation, so you have to to go to the dealer to get your product playing.

Maybe you need a lawyer to write a "letter" with the request of repair or exchange accordingly.

 

[Vienna]

Thank you shakti
I will do

 

[microstrip]

Just to point that, in general, if a manufacturer has a local distributor the distributor assumes the warranty of products according to the EU rules. According to the Kiseki site your distributor is

GreeceAudio Soul Ultrainfo@audiosoulultra.gr +30 2103839399

However I see that your point is mainly related to whether the problem is caused by mishandling or a manufacturing problem - usually it is not easy to determine. IMHO you should try a negotiated friendly agreement with the entity providing the warranty. High-end cartridges usually have a generous retail margin and are short lived, needing stylus replacement, and distributors like to keep customers happy!

 

[Vienna]

thank you microstrip.
The Greek dealer (who knows me very well- I have purchased my whole system and cables from them) had sent the cartridge to Kiseki but they claim that they cannot do anything further.

 

[microstrip]

thank you microstrip.
The Greek dealer (who knows me very well- I have purchased my whole system and cables from them) had sent the cartridge to Kiseki but they claim that they cannot do anything further.

IMHO you should contact the distributor directly - or even the manufacturer, exposing the problem.

I once had an issue with a deffective Samsonite suitcase that was immediately solved by replacement with a new suitcase when I contacted the manufacturer, although the local distributor assumed that an horrible poor plastic smell should be acceptable ...

 

[Solypsa]

At the minimum there should be a clear discussion of the costs to fully repair to new specifications, then all the parties can determine who pays for what. No reason to throw it in the garbage...

 

[Vienna]

the Cartridge is at Kiseki but so far I don’t have any other news

 

[shakti]

you should share this thread with Kiseki and all listed Kiseki distributors worldwide,
mostly this will influence their decision process

 

[mulveling]

Very sorry to hear Vienna - I feel awful for you. Hopefully Kieseki and/or the distributor/dealer will come to their senses here, and soon!

Not to offend, but I have a different story that is a shining example of great customer support by Ortofon: several years ago a good friend of mine (and one of the rare young guys in this hobby) bought a new Ortofon Jubilee from our dealer. Several months later, he caused an unfortunate "incident" with a long-sleeved fuzzy sweater, and ripped the stylus right off. He was understandably crushed, as affording the Jubilee was a very big stretch for him at that time. But our dealer convinced him to send the cart in to Ortofon anyways, and see what they might say about repair or replacement. It took a long while - apparently it arrived during one of their vacation breaks - but eventually Ortofon came back with amazing news: they said that they design these cartridges so that the metal pipe severs before the stylus glue bond breaks. BUT in my friend's case, the glue bond broke first (I think I got that right, but it's been a while). So they could consider it a warranty claim, and provided a brand NEW replacement Jubilee, even though it was my friend's fault! I certainly can't guarantee everyone in a similar situation would be so lucky, but Ortofon really impressed the hell out of me. It makes me feel that Ortofon is a company of great pride and integrity. Take note, Kiseki!!

 

[dcc]

Kiseki = Durob = Herman Van Den Dungen

It is not an esoteric Japenese manufacturer but just a Dutch guy behind it. He and his EU destributors are bound by the EU Directive on warranty.

 

[Vienna]

Thank you all for your messages.
It seems that i am not the only one disatisfied Kiseki user. I have just heard similar stories from both blue and purple heart owners. It seems that their specs are not met in all of their units.
I will let all of you know with the outcome.

At least my Lyra Etna on my main tonearm shines

 

[Vienna]

Very sorry to hear Vienna - I feel awful for you. Hopefully Kieseki and/or the distributor/dealer will come to their senses here, and soon!

Not to offend, but I have a different story that is a shining example of great customer support by Ortofon: several years ago a good friend of mine (and one of the rare young guys in this hobby) bought a new Ortofon Jubilee from our dealer. Several months later, he caused an unfortunate "incident" with a long-sleeved fuzzy sweater, and ripped the stylus right off. He was understandably crushed, as affording the Jubilee was a very big stretch for him at that time. But our dealer convinced him to send the cart in to Ortofon anyways, and see what they might say about repair or replacement. It took a long while - apparently it arrived during one of their vacation breaks - but eventually Ortofon came back with amazing news: they said that they design these cartridges so that the metal pipe severs before the stylus glue bond breaks. BUT in my friend's case, the glue bond broke first (I think I got that right, but it's been a while). So they could consider it a warranty claim, and provided a brand NEW replacement Jubilee, even though it was my friend's fault! I certainly can't guarantee everyone in a similar situation would be so lucky, but Ortofon really impressed the hell out of me. It makes me feel that Ortofon is a company of great pride and integrity. Take note, Kiseki!!

Thank you mulveling, I have many examples of companies who respect their clients too. The most recent it was when I had got a year ago a Pass Labs XP27 phono stage. After a month of perfect performance, a channel presented a problem.
It was enough to send an e- mail and a video. Nelson Pass himself had arranged with the local dealer to get an xp17 and without any question, a new unit was shipped from USA. After delivery of the new unit both Nelson Pass and Desmond Harrington wrote me an email apologizing for letting me down with a defective product, assuring me that they would thoroughly inspect the failed unit in order for them to avoid any similar failures in the future.

 

[Vienna]

Kiseki = Durob = Herman Van Den Dungen

It is not an esoteric Japenese manufacturer but just a Dutch guy behind it. He and his EU destributors are bound by the EU Directive on warranty.

I wish I knew it earlier. I had the impression that it was a Japanese manufacturer behind

 

[dcc]

It is a well known story. Durob was the distributor of Koetsu. As Herman faced some issues in getting carts from Japan, he decided to create his own range and gave it a « Japanese flavor ».

 

[Vienna]

The adventure with Kiseki is really sad.
Now they do not even answer to my messages.

Unfortunately I am discovering that I am not the only one suffering from a defective Kiseki also I was reading in VPI forum that a user had to send his defective Kiseki to Soundsmith to be corrected.

 

[Vienna]

Many weeks after and Kiseki officially reported to the Greek dealer that they do not have a proper microscope to inspect the defective cartridge.
They hope that the coming week will have one and they will be in a position to inspect the defective cartridge.

It’s becoming hilarious

 

[Phantom-Audio]

So what happened in the end? Any good news?

 

[Mendel]

Very glad I saw this thread. I was considering a Purple Heart but will definitely take a pass. The last thing I need or want is an expensive cartridge with questionable quality control and poor customer service. Shame on Kiseki for treating a customer this way.