Diana Krall - Jazz Musician?

[edorr]

Don't be too hard on some strings since I got my introduction to jazz, and a start on classical music (listening to different combinations of instruments) from Nelson Riddle and a lady named Ella Fitzgerald singing Cole Porter and Gershwin songs. I don't think that anyone would deny that Ella was a jazz singer. I find Claus Ogerman's arrangements tasteful for the most part.

I literally cannot think of any jazz that I thought benefited from adding strings to the arrangement. In rock, there are quite a few examples where adding strings or orchestra worked very well. This is all strictly personal preference of course

 

[Cascais]

I literally cannot think of any jazz that I thought benefited from adding strings to the arrangement. In rock, there are quite a few examples where adding strings or orchestra worked very well. This is all strictly personal preference of course

Have you heard Charlie Parker playing with a small string orchestra released in 1950? Also there is a work by Howard Brubeck played by the Dave Brubeck Quartet and the New York Phil that has its moments.

 

[Joe Whip]

I have heard the Paker with Strings. I do agree that Claus does a great job arranging strings. I just prefer my jazz straight up no strings, to borrow a phrase. Apologies to TM.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

I wouldn't go so far as to say I never heard any jazz with strings that I liked, but I will say that best possible addition to my record collection would be a magical substitution of something like Miles' seminal 5-piece band of 1959 for the orchestras on lots of classic jazz vocal albums. Really, Ella could have done all of her recordings with Joe Pass and it would have been fine by me. That voice requires little support, just somebody who can fill the spaces artfully and knows where the groove is.

Tim

 

[Cascais]

No, of course, the standards can be reinterpreted creatively. Instrumentalists have done it for decades. The problem, IMO, Is the expectation. Doing an album or two of standards -- smooth, lush, orchestral, not far from the classic recorded interpretations -- is a right of passage for jazz singers. And it is the most popular, the most accessible form of jazz. Making a career out of it must be very tempting. But I have the Sarah Vaughn records, the Ella records. I don't really need the same basic idea re-executed by every female singer that finds an audience. It lacks imagination. It is devoid of improvisation. And only when the orchestra is too expensive, and the form is taken on the road with a small ensemble of gifted musicians does it actually become jazz.

Exhibit A: Live in Paris.

Tim

Interesting post. Where do you draw the line between the popular classics, by the masters e.g. Kern, Gershwin, Rogers and Hart, Porter, and jazz, especially since many of these songs were written for Broadway shows? If Ella Fitzgerald sings "Begin the Beguine", is that jazz, or if Lester Young plays "S'Wonderful", is that jazz? Probably in both cases, yes, because of our expectations, as you point out. We expect Ella to render a jazz version even though that Porter song is a rather pompous show tune; with Lester Young and Gershwin there is no doubt. Do we expect Diana Krall to deliver the jazz goods? Probably not, but she often does, even with strings. However there is nothing wrong with repeating these Great American pop songs, the like of which will never be written again, just as it is okay for different musicians to keep performing Mozart piano concertos because, whether Pires or Uchida, every player brings his or her own subtle differences to the familiar work. S'Wonderful!

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Interesting post. Where do you draw the line between the popular classics, by the masters e.g. Kern, Gershwin, Rogers and Hart, Porter, and jazz, especially since many of these songs were written for Broadway shows? If Ella Fitzgerald sings "Begin the Beguine", is that jazz, or if Lester Young plays "S'Wonderful", is that jazz? Probably in both cases, yes, because of our expectations, as you point out. We expect Ella to render a jazz version even though that Porter song is a rather pompous show tune; with Lester Young and Gershwin there is no doubt. Do we expect Diana Krall to deliver the jazz goods? Probably not, but she often does, even with strings. However there is nothing wrong with repeating these Great American pop songs, the like of which will never be written again, just as it is okay for different musicians to keep performing Mozart piano concertos because, whether Pires or Uchida, every player brings his or her own subtle differences to the familiar work. S'Wonderful!

I can't find fault with this at all. S'Wonderful indeed!

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Interesting post. Where do you draw the line between the popular classics, by the masters e.g. Kern, Gershwin, Rogers and Hart, Porter, and jazz, especially since many of these songs were written for Broadway shows? If Ella Fitzgerald sings "Begin the Beguine", is that jazz, or if Lester Young plays "S'Wonderful", is that jazz? Probably in both cases, yes, because of our expectations, as you point out. We expect Ella to render a jazz version even though that Porter song is a rather pompous show tune; with Lester Young and Gershwin there is no doubt. Do we expect Diana Krall to deliver the jazz goods? Probably not, but she often does, even with strings. However there is nothing wrong with repeating these Great American pop songs, the like of which will never be written again, just as it is okay for different musicians to keep performing Mozart piano concertos because, whether Pires or Uchida, every player brings his or her own subtle differences to the familiar work. S'Wonderful!

Nope. Nothing wrong with it. The standards are mostly great melodies and often beautifully crafted lyrics, even when they're painfully goofy ("In shallow shoals, English soles do it; Goldfish in the privacy of bowls do it. Let's do it...."). Great stuff. Again, it's the expectation, and the oppressive popularity of it (people who listen to little else shouldn't be allowed to callit jazz). Krall is a perfect example. How many of these lush, overwrought albums has she done? And how many "Live in Paris" or Girl in the Other Room?"

The tyranny of the American songbook is its damping effect on jazz. Particularly for female vocalists, it makes careers and kills artistry. A tender trap.

Tim

 

[Joe Whip]

Unfortunately, once an album sells well, the record company wants more of the same. Hence more lush albums. Too often string albums are too stilted for my taste. As an example, listen to her LIve in RIO BLu-ray. Once the string stuff from the album ends, the group really kicks into gear. Cheek to Cheek really rocks.

 

[Cascais]

Nope. Nothing wrong with it. The standards are mostly great melodies and often beautifully crafted lyrics, even when they're painfully goofy ("In shallow shoals, English soles do it; Goldfish in the privacy of bowls do it. Let's do it...."). Great stuff. Again, it's the expectation, and the oppressive popularity of it (people who listen to little else shouldn't be allowed to callit jazz). Krall is a perfect example. How many of these lush, overwrought albums has she done? And how many "Live in Paris" or Girl in the Other Room?"

The tyranny of the American songbook is its damping effect on jazz. Particularly for female vocalists, it makes careers and kills artistry. A tender trap.

Tim

Don't know how you can say that the "tyranny of the American songbook is its damping effect on jazz." The core of jazz is improvisation on these songs, from Ella to Brubeck and back again. Some groups, like the MJQ, play their own compositions, but this doesn't disprove my point. These standards were the bread and butter and still are, nothing like a Gershwin song, seeped in the blues. DK, turning out overwrought, lush albums? Let's look at the Krall in my collection:
1. Only Trust your Heart - backed by a quartet incl. Ray Brown, for god's sake - jazz
2. All for you - trio à la Nat King Cole - jazz (This may be my favorite - so jazzy
3. When I look in your eyes - mixed incl. Claus Ogerman arrangements but some mightily swinging jazz- e.e. East of the sun with trio
4. The Look of Love - okay mostly big orchestrations, some overwrought but I Remember You is gorgeous.
5. Live in Paris - mixed but she is belting them out - JAZZ - Her great record.
6. Live scenes - small group jazz
7. The girl in the other room - small group jazz including homage to her mother
8. Quiet nights - mostly big, lush orchestrations but mixed with bossa nova
9. From this moment on - small group and big band jazz
10. Doing all right - quartet at the San Sebastien jazz festival improvising on those standard songs - jazz

It seems that the overwrought, lush albums are in the minority and she is playing for the most part standards and improvising on those songs as most jazz musicians do. I'm not saying that DK is the finest jazz player in the world but her music is predominately jazz, although it sometimes is hard to draw the line. Her latest album digs into songs she heard her father play on 78s when she was a child and so rescues some obscure songs from oblivion. Gotta get that with T-Bone Burnett.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Don't know how you can say that the "tyranny of the American songbook is its damping effect on jazz." The core of jazz is improvisation on these songs, from Ella to Brubeck and back again. Some groups, like the MJQ, play their own compositions, but this doesn't disprove my point. These standards were the bread and butter and still are, nothing like a Gershwin song, seeped in the blues. DK, turning out overwrought, lush albums? Let's look at the Krall in my collection:
1. Only Trust your Heart - backed by a quartet incl. Ray Brown, for god's sake - jazz
2. All for you - trio à la Nat King Cole - jazz (This may be my favorite - so jazzy
3. When I look in your eyes - mixed incl. Claus Ogerman arrangements but some mightily swinging jazz- e.e. East of the sun with trio
4. The Look of Love - okay mostly big orchestrations, some overwrought but I Remember You is gorgeous.
5. Live in Paris - mixed but she is belting them out - JAZZ - Her great record.
6. Live scenes - small group jazz
7. The girl in the other room - small group jazz including homage to her mother
8. Quiet nights - mostly big, lush orchestrations but mixed with bossa nova
9. From this moment on - small group and big band jazz
10. Doing all right - quartet at the San Sebastien jazz festival improvising on those standard songs - jazz

It seems that the overwrought, lush albums are in the minority and she is playing for the most part standards and improvising on those songs as most jazz musicians do. I'm not saying that DK is the finest jazz player in the world but her music is predominately jazz, although it sometimes is hard to draw the line. Her latest album digs into songs she heard her father play on 78s when she was a child and so rescues some obscure songs from oblivion. Gotta get that with T-Bone Burnett.

I should have said a damping effect on vocal jazz. And even then, there are plenty of exceptions, interpretations of the Songbook classics that are just wonderful. And I could be completely wrong. These generations of female jazz singers who all do at least one syrupy orchestral standards album may be doing it because that's exactly where their bliss has led them.

I'm just happy we're talking about music. Anything new in the Miles thread?

Tim

 

[Cascais]

I should have said a damping effect on vocal jazz. And even then, there are plenty of exceptions, interpretations of the Songbook classics that are just wonderful. And I could be completely wrong. These generations of female jazz singers who all do at least one syrupy orchestral standards album may be doing it because that's exactly where their bliss has led them.

I'm just happy we're talking about music. Anything new in the Miles thread?

Tim

It's always chancy to generalize about DK except to say that she is loaded with talent and personality. BTW, I agree with your view on MD's fusion period. He was pushing the envelope.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

It's always chancy to generalize about DK except to say that she is loaded with talent and personality. BTW, I agree with your view on MD's fusion period. He was pushing the envelope.

And I agree about Krall. Don't care how many mushy standards albums she does, she's the real deal. Besides, I feel for her. Can't be easy being a singer, and being married to one of the best singers on the planet.

Tim

 

[24bit]

DK singing Joni Mitchell, A Case of You

 

[Jonathan90]

A somewhat attractive lady playing jazz piano without a hook - I just can’t seem to anchor to her delivery style - perhaps it’s the lack of a distinct character in the voice that doesn’t do it for me.

 

[Cascais]

A somewhat attractive lady playing jazz piano without a hook - I just can’t seem to anchor to her delivery style - perhaps it’s the lack of a distinct character in the voice that doesn’t do it for me.

"A somewhat attractive lady..."! While I can't criticize your lack of enthusiasm for her playing and singing (different strokes for different folks) I can wonder about the mediocre review you give her appearance, but then I might be sexist. Anyway, I enjoy her mostly on audio, which is a safer medium. I have seen her in person and wouldn't qualify my admiration.

 

[roberto]

Hola Chicos. Well, I do believe that the music is like the food, you might like it or might not. But perhaps, the condiments were not right for a particular song. Please listen Diana singing a composition by Burt Bacharach, The Look of Love. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yr8xDSPjII8 The bass player is John Clayton, the drummer is Jeff Hammilton, the guitar player is Anthony Wilson, the strings are conducted by Alan Broadbent.

Here is another DVD where she is playing with Peter Erskine, drums, Anthony Wilson, guitar and Roberto Hurst, bass at the jazz festival in Montreaux, June 2004. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2-Wvy99_jE

Happy listening! and regards from Costa Rica-

 

[Cascais]

DK singing Joni Mitchell, A Case of You

Nice job by the "somewhat attractive" Diana Krall singing Joni Mitchell's great song, with Joni herself in the audience, transfixed. My favorite version of Krall singing A Case of You is on the CD of Live in Paris, but then I am not distracted by having to look at the lady.

 

[Jonathan90]

I readily agree on The Look of Love - possibly her best - I do have the Live in Paris album - sorry if my taste in women leans towards the exotic.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

I readily agree on The Look of Love - possibly her best - I do have the Live in Paris album - sorry if my taste in women leans towards the exotic.

Don't apologize.....she's a nice-looking lady, but meh!

 

[Cascais]

Don't apologize.....she's a nice-looking lady, but meh!

Right. How important is a musician's looks to his or her talent? Zero, unless you happen to be an opera singer performing Carmen.