Definition please

[nsgarch]

Is there a date prior to which consumer audio (and video?) electronics (or any audio/video electronics) are considered vintage -- by a qualified institution like the Smithsonian or some other authority such as one of the electronic institutes, museum associations, auction houses, etc?

Or is it just what feels 'vintage' to a given individual? For example, I know of a certain online publishing ignoramus who believes (and said so online!) that the "old days" was anything before 1980!

 

[MylesBAstor]

Is there a date prior to which consumer audio (and video?) electronics (or any audio/video electronics) are considered vintage -- by a qualified institution like the Smithsonian or some other authority such as one of the electronic institutes, museum associations, auction houses, etc?

Or is it just what feels 'vintage' to a given individual? For example, I know of a certain online publishing ignoramus who believes (and said so online!) that the "old days" was anything before 1980!

LOL...kinda like that teenager looking thru the record racks and pulling out a Beatles LP and saying to his Dad...look Paul McCartney was in a band before Wings

 

[nsgarch]

LOL...kinda like that teenager looking thru the record racks and pulling out a Beatles LP and saying to his Dad...look Paul McCartney was in a band before Wings

It's an honest question, your metaphor notwithstanding. Or are you saying we should look to adolescent behavior to provide direction? That doesn't seem very helpful

Leaving aside "vintage" computers, there doesn't seem to actually be a classification for "vintage electronics". There is this description pertaining to different categories of antiques:

"An item which is at least 100 years old and is collected or desirable due to rarity, condition, utility, or some other unique feature. Motor vehicles, power tools and other items subject to vigorous use in contrast, may be considered antiques in the U.S. if older than 50 years, and some electronic gadgets of more recent vintage* may be considered antiques. Another general rule of thumb is 75 years for most objects to become antiques."

* vintage in this case referring to date (of manufacture)

I do know there are many people who collect antique electronics, however those objects may not be functional for one reason or another, and therefore would not interest most audiophiles, who would want to hear (some kind of) sound come out

Since the name of this website is "What's Best" perhaps we could at least arrive at a strong consensus as to what best qualifies a piece of electronic gear as vintage; but not antique. Again, this was a serious question, and I think deserves some consideration. Here are a couple of criteria I'd include:

1. No longer in production and/or manufacturer/company no longer exists.
2. Incorporates parts no longer available and/or designs no longer commonly used.
3. At least a thousand copies originally produced.
4. In working condition, or easily restored to working condition using original parts, or parts nearly identical to the original parts.

My plan is for us to compile a reasonably long list (> 20 criteria) and then ask everyone to rank them in order of importance. You get the picture

 

[kach22i]

Neil, is this the same guy which thinks 1978 is "The 60's"?

 

[Nicholas Bedworth]

Antique cars are those 25 years or more old, at least in some states. This definition was current in the 80's One could get discounted insurance on the grounds that the cars would just be used to go to events and excursions, not in daily use.

 

[MylesBAstor]

It's an honest question, your metaphor notwithstanding. Or are you saying we should look to adolescent behavior to provide direction? That doesn't seem very helpful

Leaving aside "vintage" computers, there doesn't seem to actually be a classification for "vintage electronics". There is this description pertaining to different categories of antiques:

"An item which is at least 100 years old and is collected or desirable due to rarity, condition, utility, or some other unique feature. Motor vehicles, power tools and other items subject to vigorous use in contrast, may be considered antiques in the U.S. if older than 50 years, and some electronic gadgets of more recent vintage* may be considered antiques. Another general rule of thumb is 75 years for most objects to become antiques."

* vintage in this case referring to date (of manufacture)

I do know there are many people who collect antique electronics, however those objects may not be functional for one reason or another, and therefore would not interest most audiophiles, who would want to hear (some kind of) sound come out

Since the name of this website is "What's Best" perhaps we could at least arrive at a strong consensus as to what best qualifies a piece of electronic gear as vintage; but not antique. Again, this was a serious question, and I think deserves some consideration. Here are a couple of criteria I'd include:

1. No longer in production and/or manufacturer/company no longer exists.
2. Incorporates parts no longer available and/or designs no longer commonly used.
3. At least a thousand copies originally produced.
4. In working condition, or easily restored to working condition using original parts, or parts nearly identical to the original parts.

My plan is for us to compile a reasonably long list (> 20 criteria) and then ask everyone to rank them in order of importance. You get the picture

Sorry Neil, just found your post highly amusing ergo got a real chuckle considering the rest of thing going on around here Perhaps if you worked as I do in a field where you're 55 and everyone is 21, you'd see more humor. Like the time I got excited about getting Pink Floyd tickets for their Oct. MSG concert and everyone looked at me with a blank stare

But yes, you've asked a valid question that I don't know the answer to. Perhaps it is your frame of reference? For me "vintage" would mean a product made at the dawn of the stereo era. But to someone older, it might a Leak amplifier or a Lowther speaker made in the '30s or '40s.

 

[nsgarch]

Sorry Neil, just found your post highly amusing ergo got a real chuckle considering the rest of thing going on around here Perhaps if you worked as I do in a field where you're 55 and everyone is 21, you'd see more humor. Like the time I got excited about getting Pink Floyd tickets for their Oct. MSG concert and everyone looked at me with a blank stare

But yes, you've asked a valid question that I don't know the answer to. Perhaps it is your frame of reference? For me "vintage" would mean a product made at the dawn of the stereo era. But to someone older, it might a Leak amplifier or a Lowther speaker made in the '30s or '40s.

Myles: One definition of vintage would be ME! (More than a decade older than YOU!) But I think that goes more to ANTIQUE!! I nevertheless seem to attract people in their thirties (+/_) and adjusting for their age-related ignorance, find them fascinating as well. I've introduced a few to high-end simply by turning on my system and realizing they would never be the same I don't have a definition for vintage electronics (as opposed to antique electronics.) Which is why I started this thread. I'm hoping folks will chime in with their own ideas about what makes a piece of equipment vintage versus antique. Even if there is no clear consensus, maybe we could say it has to satisfy at least five items on the list -- like they do when making psychiatric diagnoses!

Nicholas: I drive the 1972 MB 280 SEL 4.5 my father purchased new. It's 38 years old this fall. They'll probably bury me in it.

George: "Neil, is this the same guy which thinks 1978 is "The 60's"? " It certainly could be -- although I missed that particular bit of bombast!

Now, how about some thoughts on the nature of vintage, please?

 

[kach22i]

I think "vintage" is 1979 and older, the nearest end/start of a decade closest to when I graduated High school from. I recently went looking for a "vintage receiver" and in my mind this meant 1970-1980 (Scott, Sanui and even SAE).

I can easily say 1980's vintage and feel clear in meaning.

I can say 1990's era when referring to early digital and most people here would know what I'm about to say.

In the fast world of equipment review, anything Pre-2000 is certainly "older stuff".

Just about everything I own (stereo or otherwise) is "older stuff".

Born 1960, just turned 50.

 

[karma]

HI All,
I started a thread on Audio Karma asking this same question. I can tell you that we will never get agreement. For most, it seems, vintage is sort of a feeling. And like a feeling, it's difficult to describe and agree upon. I gave up.

Sparky

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

HI All,
I started a thread on Audio Karma asking this same question. I can tell you that we will never get agreement. For most, it seems, vintage is sort of a feeling. And like a feeling, it's difficult to describe and agree upon. I gave up.

Sparky

Ah...so "vintage" is like "musical?" I'm vintage and date to considerably before 1979, but I'd consider any mainstream solid state audio prior to that year "vintage." Tubes? Hard to say. Is it all "vintage?" Is none of it "vintage?" If we were still making '57 Chevys, would brand new ones, coming right off the assembly line be instant "vintage?" These are deep, philosophical questions, unless you were born after 1979, in whch anything bigger than your pocket, and smaller than 5.1 channels is an antique, and so is the guy who owns it.

Tim

 

[JackD201]

25 years is pretty much the universal definition of Vintage. Dude, deja vu. It's a moving thing. Things become vintage every year.

Now to be vintage with a cherry on top is a whole 'nuther story. It would require a high level of significance be it historical, aesthetic or any criteria that will leave any item with some demand.

 

[mep]

Haven't we had this exact same conversation before? I think Snarky started the original thread.

 

[Fred]

It seems to me the digital age continues to smear and compress time exponentially. In light of the latest digital gadgets now available, is my 5th generation iPod classic vintage?

On a more serious note, I do consider my 1975 Marantz 2240B to be vintage along with my 1978 JVC KD-85 cassette deck and 1978 Pioneer RT-707.

I'm not so certain about how to consider my 1981 Teac X-1000R tape deck though.

Can a product be considered vintage merely by virtue of its technology becoming obsolete irrespective of its age? For example, tubes and tape.

 

[Wasatch]

To me vintage is something rare, but also that it was some very very very nice stuff at the time. Right now alot of the vintage gear is just old stuff, really not worth the money and it is not that good sounding. I'm a true believer in newer technology.