Confessions of an Audiophile Junky-I Got Center Stage With Pitch Perfect Sound

joelavrencik

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Nov 15, 2016
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We'll, now that the train has left the station.....a few comments if I may on Center stage footers.

Anti-vibration tools have been a useful adjunct for audiophiles for many years. My own experience has been translated mostly from the laboratory bench to my home listening environment by trial and error. When I was a young postdoctoral fellow, and long before they were modern laboratory tools to control vibration, I used a make-shift contraption from springs, foam rubber and tape to control vibration in a high-performance liquid chromatography apparatus that almost buzzed off the bench unaided. Controlling vibration allowed for a 100X improvement in sensitivity and detection of a tiny amount of a chemical in eye fluid that I otherwise could not measure in the undamped HPLC gear. Thus I learned first hand the benefits of anti-vibration gear to reducing background noise to let a signal become more identifiable.

Fortunately, anti-vibration equipment for laboratory equipment has come a long way in the past 3 decades. When I ran a research lab for a large pharmaceutical company, we used a plethora of pneumatic and piezoelectric benches to reduce vibrations from a wide variety of equipment that included electron microscopes to spectroscopy instruments. However, having a virtually unlimited budget for such gear was a luxury I did not have at home for audio equipment. Although I am certain that the Herzan and TMC devices discussed in this forum are the “real deal” as supported by transmissibility vs frequency plots that show as much as 100-1000 fold reduction of vibration in the region of 1-20 Hz and often beyond, most of us mere mortals are unable to allocate $10+K for the best of these devices. However, there are many of us that incorporate $1000 devices such as the venerable Vibraplane that work quite well for specific applications (i.e. turntable support) although they must be tethered to an air pump which can be a sonic nuisance if located in one’s listening room. Although useful and affordable, it is impractical to put a Vibraplane under every piece of gear if for no other reason that the base is larger than most audio racks and shelves. And those pumps are not truly innocuous (mine is a located a floor away).

When it came to finding self-sufficient, free-standing devices to reduce component vibration from my audio gear, I would often use trial and error methods to select devices that ranged from classic tip toes (in multiple varieties from metal to plastic to carbon fiber) to absorbent materials such as sorbothane to rubber mats to see which worked best under a given piece of gear. I am sure I am not the only audiophile who had a box of assorted goodies lying in a closet somewhere from which to choose.

So now comes along another footer with a fancy name “Center Stage” that I was asked to try under my gear. As you surely know by now they are made by Joe Lavrencik, the manufacturer of CMS racks. They apparently use a skillful combination of materials to derive benefits that surpass those of other conventional footers in a way that is neither disclosed nor explained. Don’t look for transmisibility vs frequency plots either. They aren’t available. But since they come from a credible manufacturer of audio racks that are well reviewed by a wide circle of publications and users alike, I figured, OK, why not try them? After all, their installation is effortless (just stick them under your gear) and if I didn’t like them, they can be removed as easily as they were installed.

So how did they sound? Or put more accurately how did my system sound with them in place? Before coming to a final impression, I unfortunately had to suffer the phenomenon we know collectively as “break-in”. Huh? Am I saying that a puny little footer needs time to acclimate under the gear that is supports before the system sounds its best? Unfortunately, that is the case. To be clear, I hate break-in. Some of it I understand (with cables, I get that it takes time for different metal surfaces to anneal) and some it (actually, most of it) I have no understanding of the voodoo that occurs during the break-in process. But one thing is clear. These things take some time to sound their best. In fact, the manufacturer states clearly that you should not expect optimum performance for several days. Yes, days. Lavrenchik also goes so far as to tell you that your system will likely sound worse initially, but then provides a note of optimism by telling you that your patience will be amply rewarded. He is right on both counts.

Initially, my system sucked with the footers in place. I used them under my VTL pre-amp, Meitner DAC and transport, and ASR phono stage. It was ugly at first. Unlistenable actually, particularly in the bass. I wanted to remove them after 2 days but persevered only because I promised I would do the experiment correctly and keep them in for at least 7 days. I’m glad I persevered because at day 4, something positive happened and the sound started to go beyond the speakers for the first time since their installation. By day 5, the soundstage was in full bloom, extending well beyond the speakers, with impressive depth as well. And by day 7, the bass finally popped. I shook my head in astonishment. The sound was actually superior to my starting point, which BTW, wasn’t too shabby to begin with. But the revelations did not stop there. At day 10 there was yet another incremental improvement, and now I'm starting to use words like "miniature space machines" to describe their benefits. Downside? Well, yes in the sense that you may have to tweak a few things here and there to derive the optimum sound stage with them in place. For example, I had to move the inside edge of my Gotham subs forward about 1 cm to regain optimum time arrival of the low bass with that of the Alexandrias. Not really unexpected or traumatic perhaps, but still, I didn't anticipate performing a slight phase adjustment tweak on my subs as a result of installing mere footers.

So what’s the bottom line? I neither understand how they work, and honestly do not care. I have no measurements to guide me either. Even for a scientist like me, those would be a “nice to have”, not a “must have”. But work they do. The proof is in the listening. They clearly improved the soundfield of my system like any good footer should do, but they did so in a way that was better than what I was using in my current set-up. The validation of their performance was put in high relief when I had to remove them to return them to the manufacturer as the units I had initially were not final production units. That was very telling. I missed them immediately and was therefore eager to get the units back permanently. (Absence makes the heart grow fonder as they say.) So that's the bottom line. They are cost effective. They are easy to install. They work well. What else do you want? I guess you could always choose to spend 10K for an active piezo device under every piece of audio gear, but I'll pass on that option when there's a far more cost effective way to reduce pernicious vibrations in my system that doesn't lead to divorce court.

Hi Marty,

I truly appreciate your participation in the beta phase. Thank you!

Marty was instrumental in the development of the final version of CS. He Pointed out an irregularity in the low frequencies with the V2 feet in his system. So, V3 was all bout low frequency resolution and extension......and all about getting it right for Marty. All of this without loosing anything in the higher frequencies, and hopefully, improving the entire envelope at the same time.

If there were 2 guys standing in a room, Marty and me, he would be the smartest guy in the room. But, having said this, CS is targeted at cross border entropic transfer in reversible thermodynamic systems rather than "isolation". You can't do much isolation in 1" or less. I'm not saying you couldn't run CS on a shaker table for 10 days with a component on top to see what frequency vs transmissibility results you get. You would definitely register results, but I don't think this is "where the action is". What makes CS different is the departure from classical isolation approaches. I'm sure this will come up again.

Most importantly, we're prosecuting a patent and until this is resolved, I have been advised to keep details confidential. I'm really sorry about this for now.

Putting all of this aside, Marty is an excellent person to work with (and for). He is uncompromising, focused, highly intelligent and tells it like it is without any pointless filters. These are really good qualities! I count myself as lucky to have worked with him in the advancement of this great hobby.
 

joelavrencik

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Nov 15, 2016
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Can they also improve picture quality when placed under video components?
...Under a 4K/3D Blu-ray player, under a TV base/pedestal, under a front video projector?

Hi NorthStar

This is a great question. Yes, for the Blu-ray player as a logical extension of success with other electromechanical devices. For the rest, I'm not sure as we haven't tested this yet.
 

Mobiusman

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May 24, 2010
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So what happens when there are swings in room temp? I'm thinking the footers are dealing in micro temps but rooms can swing several degrees constantly. How is the performance envelope affected?
I live on the water with an 8' slider behind my listening chair and another door behind my system and water on that side also. They are always open when I am home and I have never heard any sonic difference of any sort.
 

joelavrencik

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Best of luck with the new venture Steve... would love to know why they have such a unusually big settling in shift in their nature over that first week. Sounds promising if they are imparting some of the qualities from the CMS racks as well.

Is their greatest strength in terms of sound stage and do you find they shift of bring other things out in the presentation eg viscerality, flow etc

This is another great question. Components are affected by vibration, we all know this. A component settles into a steady state of excitation with whatever it is resting upon, and this is one of the reasons why the same component can sound different in different systems. We see this right here in this forum when members provide differing experiences with the same component.

CS is placed under the component and changes the equilibrium between the component and the "shelf". The state of "disorder" inside the component begins to lessen. This changes the sound coming out of the loudspeakers. I always tell people it's going to be terrible for 3 days because the worse thing you can do is over-promise and under-deliver. What I know for sure is that each listener's experience is going to be different because each listener's system is different. I also know that the continuous reduction of entropy will ultimately produce the same excellent results. There is no way for a thermodynamic system to avoid it (without external tampering). It's the 2nd Law.

I'll come back to CMS racks later. For now, let me say that everything you mentioned in your stand-alone sentence happens. All of it. And more. Honestly.
 

joelavrencik

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Nov 15, 2016
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Thank you rbbert

As I said I was happily retired. This is so unique that Ron will have the hyperbole police after me. I’ve known Marty and Russ for decades and in audio matters their ears are amongst the best I know. For me as a CMS user it was critical that beta testers have good resolving systems, are not CMS users and who have good ears and would tell me if this was a case of the Emperor’s New Clothes. IOW I had to be sure that this was the real deal. Thanks to marty and Russ feedback to Joe, he learned a few things , did some thinking and made a change that is even better still.

I think for products such as this it’s word of mouth and personal use that tend to make a product known. With Center Stage it’s personal use. Plus they are easy to install.

I knew it!!!!! ...........and wisely so. :)
 

joelavrencik

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These all have an adapter hole because as I said we were going to provide adapters for components. Further testing showed no sonic difference with or without adapters so this makes the entire insertion process a matter of minutes

These are not meant for under speakers but one never knows what goes on the very clever mind of Joe :)

I kept the adapter hole for OEM applications. As Steve said, you don't need adapters.
 

NorthStar

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Hi NorthStar

This is a great question. Yes, for the Blu-ray player as a logical extension of success with other electromechanical devices. For the rest, I'm not sure as we haven't tested this yet.

Hi Joe, I understand that a Blu-ray player is also a music player (hi-res audio files, CD, SACD, DVD-Audio, Blu-ray Audio, ...) but it is also a movie player (hi-def video files, DVD, Blu-ray Video, ...).
And it was mainly on the second aspect that my question repose. ...Meaning the foundation of the video aspect.

I am happy to hear that it would work for the audio improvement...Sound Stage...under a Blu-ray player; it is good news for watching movies with great music scores...in immersing surround sound.

And it would be interesting to find out if it improve the video quality as well, like perhaps more 3-dimensional. I just don't know, it simply crossed my mind.

Nice meeting you and thank you for your reply.
Cheers,
Bob
 

Kingsrule

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I live on the water with an 8' slider behind my listening chair and another door behind my system and water on that side also. They are always open when I am home and I have never heard any sonic difference of any sort.

I guess Thermodynamics doesn't really apply then.....lets hear from the designer......
 
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joelavrencik

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Nov 15, 2016
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This is an interesting product, Steve.
Many years ago I was a beta tester for the Harmonix footers from Japan. I was at first skeptical that such a small and seemingly innocuous device could really add anything to the SQ. Boy was I wrong! Under digital products and under amps and preamps, these little footers were such a revelation that I refused to let them go and have owned several pair ever since. ( the increase in SQ was obvious from the first minute...no break-in required!)
The technology behind Harmonix seems to be as opaque as behind the Center Stages, but one listen is usually all it takes.
Might be interesting to 'AB' Harmonix vs Center Stage.

Hi Davey

I checked out the Harmonix site. As an FYI, these are not the same thing as CS.
 

joelavrencik

Industry Expert
Nov 15, 2016
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How will they preform under my dac which sits on a Herzan TS140? I have a clock on top on dac...would I need them under that also?

What is the return policy?

Hi Kingsrule

I checked out the Herzan site and so long as the unit is neutral, which I highly suspect it is, CS would make a terrific improvement. I'd put them under the clock too. You'll hear it.

We used them under an Olsonic transport sitting on top of a Soulution 560 DAC (with CS underneath) sitting on a CMS filter. Incredible. You should hear your system move in a very good direction. I'd bet you'd be back for more.
 

joelavrencik

Industry Expert
Nov 15, 2016
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Good luck with you new gig Doc.

I'd love to try them, but if it takes "2 weeks of torture before the clouds part" and returns must be sent within 14 days, plus there's a 35% restocking fee, I think I'll proceed with the plan to get all active components out of my listening room into an acoustically sealed closet.

You'll know exactly what direction your system is heading in long before 2 weeks. May I ask what components you use and the same for your rack system? I might be able to provide a better time frame.........
 

Simon Moon

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Boy was I in for a shock. For the first 3 days my system sounded worse than terrible. Joe was now back in Chicago and I would call him every day for this first 3 days and tell him I wanted to remove the feet from my components because my system was unlistenable. Joe would say “be patient as the wait will be worth it.” The one thing I have learned about Joe is that when it comes to the design of high end audio racks he is a veritable genius and when he said to be patient, that is what I needed to do.

I am so thrilled that I took his advice. On day 4 my system suddenly had a very pleasant sound. On day 5 the top end of my system was spectacular. By days 6-7 there was such a dramatic change in my mid bass that it had me listening non stop as there was no glare and no fatigue. I was mesmerized.

It wasn’t until days 8-10 however that the true magic of Joe’s “foot” came to life. The deep bass was truly the best I had ever heard in my system and the total integration of the sound literally “snapped into place”. In fact, there was such a profound improvement in the mid bass and deep bass in my speakers that I could turn down the crossover on my JL Audio Fathom subwoofers to the lowest point without any loss of foundation, pace or slam. We all know the acronym PRAT but honestly, I never appreciated pace, rhythm and timing as much as I did with these feet in place.

But there was more! I was not ready for what I heard. Joe, as an audio rack designer for the past 17 years has been working on removing the “wall” at the front plane of the loudspeakers that separates the listener from the musicians. His idea was to lower the noise floor so that the recorded acoustic already found in each song filled the room and immersed the listener in the sound field. This is exactly what I began to hear in my room. Music that I use often for demos had the sound field extending from behind the speakers (as always),and then forward into the room as if there were no speakers there at all. I have never experienced such an audio accomplishment as this in all the years I have been involved in this hobby. On some tracks the sound came so far forward that it seemed to wrap around my head. I became totally immersed in the sound field.

I phoned Joe on day 10 and told him that he was going to have to shoot me to get the feet back because in my mind they were such a dramatic improvement I just couldn’t be without them. I had several further talks with Joe about the product as I felt it was far ahead of anything available today. I convinced Joe that it was important for the every listener to hear and own this product. In fact, I was so excited about this product that I licensed retail distribution from Joe to do that very thing and I now find myself the global distributor for what I call Center Stage. I started a new company for this product and aptly decided to call it “Pitch Perfect Sound”. My new website for Center Stage can be found here www.pitchperfectsound.com


So, I am not at all skeptical that footers and similar isolation devices can and do make a big difference in sound quality. And I have a system that is capable of proper resolution to allow those differences to be discerned. I have had more of my share of various devices under all my equipment, and have pages in a notebook describing what I heard.

But, the thing I can not wrap my head around, is how they can break in? What is the mechanism that allows this?

I did not read the entire thread, so I might have missed an explanation, but I will read the whole thread when I get home from work. If it has been explained, please point me to the post #.

Thanks!
 

marty

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Apr 20, 2010
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Hi Marty,

I truly appreciate your participation in the beta phase. Thank you!

Marty was instrumental in the development of the final version of CS. He Pointed out an irregularity in the low frequencies with the V2 feet in his system. So, V3 was all bout low frequency resolution and extension......and all about getting it right for Marty. All of this without loosing anything in the higher frequencies, and hopefully, improving the entire envelope at the same time.

If there were 2 guys standing in a room, Marty and me, he would be the smartest guy in the room. But, having said this, CS is targeted at cross border entropic transfer in reversible thermodynamic systems rather than "isolation". You can't do much isolation in 1" or less. I'm not saying you couldn't run CS on a shaker table for 10 days with a component on top to see what frequency vs transmissibility results you get. You would definitely register results, but I don't think this is "where the action is". What makes CS different is the departure from classical isolation approaches. I'm sure this will come up again.

Most importantly, we're prosecuting a patent and until this is resolved, I have been advised to keep details confidential. I'm really sorry about this for now.

Putting all of this aside, Marty is an excellent person to work with (and for). He is uncompromising, focused, highly intelligent and tells it like it is without any pointless filters. These are really good qualities! I count myself as lucky to have worked with him in the advancement of this great hobby.

Jeez, Joe, thanks for your kind comments. I don't mean to correct you but you are certainly wrong on 2 key points.
1) I am hardly the smartest person in any room. My wife is. Even when she's not in the room.
2) Many people think I'm a pain in the ass to work for or with. But once I bring out some good wine, nobody seems to mind anymore.
 
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microstrip

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I knew it!!!!! ...........and wisely so. :)

Although I share Steve opinion, and will not question modus operandis, there is a question that it is haunting me - during burn-in, the gradual "reduction of disorder" happens in the equipment or just in the feet?
 

DaveC

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Just a thought.
Is it good to be in the stage rather than observing it?
This is not how one hears live music.
Does one truly wish to be "in" the orchestra?
I'm not sure I do.
Steve, no criticism intended, I would be curious to hear this effect.

This is a good question, ime imaging in front of the speakers can be either a result of artifacts or a result of a system performing at a very high level. If the presentation doesn't have depth, if you can't hear imaging from well behind the speakers as well as in front then it's a problem and a result of particular artifacts. Combined with narrow directivity the effect can sound just like listening to headphones, and this is not good. If the presentation is simply so deep it exceeds the dimensions of your listening room then, imo, you have achieved a level of playback realism that typical cone 'n' dome speakers rarely achieve.

The effect of a 3-D soundstage that extends in front and behind the plane of the speakers is actually the number one goal of my speaker design, and in listening tests it's the one factor EVERYONE notices, comments on and enjoys. If these footers contribute towards this kind of performance I think it's a good thing.
 

DaveC

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2) Many people think I'm a pain in the ass to work for or with. But once I bring out some good wine, nobody seems to mind anymore.

Ahh, so that's the key? I'll have to remember to get anyone I work with buzzed in the future... ;)
 

Tango

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You'll know exactly what direction your system is heading in long before 2 weeks. May I ask what components you use and the same for your rack system? I might be able to provide a better time frame.........

Dear Mr. Lavrencik,

This is such good news to me. I am one of your customers using cms rack. Reading Steve's extraodinary experience with these magic footers, I no longer have to upgrade my rack to your Olympus. This is the kind of value creation all manufacturer should do for their customers :).

Kind regards,
Tang
 

mauidan

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Aug 2, 2010
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No torture for 14 days. The production version actually sound pretty good out of the box, or at least after an hour or so, to the point that you can listen. Each day it gets better and then really starts to open up on day 5 and blossoms on day 6. What I called V1 was a much more difficult break-in.

Mahalo for the info, but I'm not ready to drop $6K (5-sets) on these based on feedback from just you, Marty and Steve.

BTW, I was back in Jersey a week ago.

My sister took us to a great restaurant in Surf City - Scojo's.

The weather was great and the Jersey shore is still a beautiful place.
 

chopchopbin

Well-Known Member
Sep 27, 2015
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Hi Steve,

Does the equipment need to be playing music 24/7 for 7+ days to break in the footers?
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Hi Steve,

Does the equipment need to be playing music 24/7 for 7+ days to break in the footers?

No is the short answer

For whatever reason playing music facilitates the break in but not necessary to play 24/7
 

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