Cessaro or Von Schweikert

[JackD201]

No, I did read it. He clearly stated a fact (to him).

Similarly, I could've said something like:

I have made no opinions or claims as anyone can clearly see that the earth is flat.

See, I stated a fact right there, even though I claim on the first part of the sentence I didn't. And of course, this fact is just as wrong as Leif's.

As the proud son of an english professor I can say that Leif and Alex are short two commas.

I have made no opinions or claims, as anyone can clearly see, that the earth is flat.

I have made no opinions or claims, as anyone can clearly see, that the VSA speakers are better than .............

As a legislator with a decade of experience, I can tell you that punctuation matters!

 

[asiufy]

Hahahaha perfect! You nailed it, Jack!

 

[JackD201]

 

[Holli82]

Yes they were two private Homes in the US.

System A was VR9SE's driven by VAC Electronics--Digital Only no Analogue--this gentleman is a member here

System B was the earlier VR versions driven by Sheng Ya Mono blocks--both Digital and LP was sourced--this gentleman is a Dagogo Reviewer

Both were admirable with their presentation and would be happy with either--but yes Chris's AE setup would shame nearly any other Performance out there

Good luck with your quest.

BruceD-

Hey Bruce,

I broke down and bought a modest turntable since you were here. I can tell you that there has been a noticeable difference in the sound of my system (for the better). Come back by when you are on this side of the world. Bring your vinyl!!! Don't worry, my turntable won't keep your records like my CD player did last visit.

 

[BruceD]

Hey Bruce,

I broke down and bought a modest turntable since you were here. I can tell you that there has been a noticeable difference in the sound of my system (for the better). Come back by when you are on this side of the world. Bring your vinyl!!! Don't worry, my turntable won't keep your records like my CD player did last visit.

HI there Matey!!--Ha! I didn't post the Photo I took of the Speakers--in lieu of your privacy/etc but you cottoned on to my post anyway

Indeed the old LP still has a lot going for it--kudos for you--Yes I can imagine your standard of "Modest"---good one!

Enjoy of course will look forward to a return visit in 017

Ha!--yes the CD eating Spinner--Jaws in the desert

BruceD

 

[morricab]

If you want a (mostly) horn speaker that will fit pretty well into a modest sized room then you should consider the Odeon No. 28/2 or 32/2. These are true horn from the mid range up and the low end is covered by a passive (complex) vented design. The 28/2 has a 94db/watt sensitivity and the 32/2 has 95db/watt senstivity. I have Odeon "La Boheme" speakers in a pretty small room and it works really well. A friend of mine has the 32 and it is an awesome speaker. Neither of these speakers is huge, they are very well integrated (much better than AGs) and have good solid bass down to about 30Hz. It has the dynamics to startle with the right electronics. In a small room you can get by with probably 10 watts or so.

 

[bonzo75]

If you want a (mostly) horn speaker that will fit pretty well into a modest sized room then you should consider the Odeon No. 28/2 or 32/2. These are true horn from the mid range up and the low end is covered by a passive (complex) vented design. The 28/2 has a 94db/watt sensitivity and the 32/2 has 95db/watt senstivity. I have Odeon "La Boheme" speakers in a pretty small room and it works really well. A friend of mine has the 32 and it is an awesome speaker. Neither of these speakers is huge, they are very well integrated (much better than AGs) and have good solid bass down to about 30Hz. It has the dynamics to startle with the right electronics. In a small room you can get by with probably 10 watts or so.

Compared to which AGs, I assume you mean duos and lesser. I also believe Jefferey_T was referring to Duos or lesser in his AG post

 

[morricab]

Compared to which AGs, I assume you mean duos and lesser. I also believe Jefferey_T was referring to Duos or lesser in his AG post

I have heard Trios sounding much less coherent on a number of occasions.

 

[bonzo75]

Duos pale in comparison to most speakers and trios with bass horns are among my favorites, they need a big room though.

 

[DaveC]

Duos pale in comparison to most speakers and trios with bass horns are among my favorites, they need a big room though.

IDK, I disagree. The new Duos are very good, a massive leap in quality vs their past models. A friend of mine got some older Unos, talk about BAD! The new Duos are so much better, but the old ones... the bass unit might as well be made by Bose. I've never heard the Trios sounding all that coherent either but haven't heard them recently enough to make any comments.

As far as Cessaro, I'd love to know what they are really capable of, and would highly suggest those who show them bring with them the ability to play CDs and memory sticks. After years of hearing vinyl I'm not familiar with at Cessaro demos I still don't have a good feel for them because of this.

 

[KeithR]

Bonzo/Morricab - have you heard the new AGs with XD tech?

 

[marslo]

I have heard Trios sounding much less coherent on a number of occasions.

+1

 

[marslo]

IDK, I disagree. The new Duos are very good, a massive leap in quality vs their past models. A friend of mine got some older Unos, talk about BAD! The new Duos are so much better, but the old ones... the bass unit might as well be made by Bose. I've never heard the Trios sounding all that coherent either but haven't heard them recently enough to make any comments.

As far as Cessaro, I'd love to know what they are really capable of, and would highly suggest those who show them bring with them the ability to play CDs and memory sticks. After years of hearing vinyl I'm not familiar with at Cessaro demos I still don't have a good feel for them because of this.

This year in Warsaw I have heard Cessaro driven by Air Tight amplification with Polish TT and phono stage "Zontek".
It was the best Cessaro presentation for me, former ones were not succesful imo, either in Munich 2014 nor in Warsaw 2013 and 2014.

 

[bonzo75]

Btw, air tight on AG sounds great as well. Ron and I heard the 300b integrated driving the trios

 

[morricab]

Actually for the kind of ridiculous money the Cessaro Wagner costs I would buy the Aries Cerat Symphonia, its even cheaper but likely to sound better. The room that is proposed might be too small for it though...the room in Munich 2014 was also small but sure sounded good.

 

[Folsom]

The Aries Cerat Symphonia should integrate into very small rooms that have enough width even better. The speaker that isn't firing out of a horn is midbass, not midrange. It's a bit of an advantage to have a less directional midbass in this case, since you can't really play around nulls that are more likely with more directional, larger, midbass/bass drivers. The Wagner in contrast has a wider dispersion midrange that's also the midbass - the midbass should be fine but the midrange will suffer reflections from side walls and comb filter way earlier where as the Symphonia will predominately have more late reflections that don't actually cause a problem.

 

[morricab]

The Aries Cerat Symphonia should integrate into very small rooms that have enough width even better. The speaker that isn't firing out of a horn is midbass, not midrange. It's a bit of an advantage to have a less directional midbass in this case, since you can't really play around nulls that are more likely with more directional, larger, midbass/bass drivers. The Wagner in contrast has a wider dispersion midrange that's also the midbass - the midbass should be fine but the midrange will suffer reflections from side walls and comb filter way earlier where as the Symphonia will predominately have more late reflections that don't actually cause a problem.

I agree, my Odeons are basically just like the Wagners in terms of design concept (backloaded horn bass/mid and front loaded horn tweeter) and I use them in a small room with nearby side walls. I had to toe them in sharply to minimize reflection issues. The directivity of the Symphonia would likely be an advantage in this regard. For sure in a small room not much power will be needed.

 

[Believe High Fidelity]

The Aries Cerat Symphonia should integrate into very small rooms that have enough width even better. The speaker that isn't firing out of a horn is midbass, not midrange. It's a bit of an advantage to have a less directional midbass in this case, since you can't really play around nulls that are more likely with more directional, larger, midbass/bass drivers. The Wagner in contrast has a wider dispersion midrange that's also the midbass - the midbass should be fine but the midrange will suffer reflections from side walls and comb filter way earlier where as the Symphonia will predominately have more late reflections that don't actually cause a problem.

One significant advantage that is the most overlooked is the zero diffraction design. When we advertise this most do not get the significance of such a design. Horns and their compromises have been largely the reason for going with a traditional speaker design.

When you throw the zero diffraction into the equation AND have a horn made from solid wood rather than MDF or composite AND have a true basshorn rather than just an integrated active sub AND have a variable slope crossover to achieve true to form time alignment AND be compact enough to fit in a small room for its output capabilities is a significant achievement

...and it has high WAF too. Most who have seen have suggested selling in an art gallery rather than to audiophiles just on the design and finish (limited edition version)

 

[FrantzM]

One significant advantage that is the most overlooked is the zero diffraction design. When we advertise this most do not get the significance of such a design. Horns and their compromises have been largely the reason for going with a traditional speaker design.

When you throw the zero diffraction into the equation AND have a horn made from solid wood rather than MDF or composite AND have a true basshorn rather than just an integrated active sub AND have a variable slope crossover to achieve true to form time alignment AND be compact enough to fit in a small room for its output capabilities is a significant achievement

...and is had high WAF too. Most who have seen have suggested selling in an art gallery rather than to audiophiles just on the design and finish (limited edition version)

Hi

The thread is moving in a different direction from what the OP asked .. Just 2 brands that got to move toward more brands being ..well ... brandied ..

I have a few things to say and will get back to my lair...
having been in the hobby for the past 40 years .. I have seen this, been there, done that and the whole sack of cliches..
To me horns is where I am right now.

As in many things it is a matter of implementation and there are bad implementations. Multi driver speakers need the drivers to integrate and this often requires a given listening distance. This requirement has to be balanced with the distribution of nodes in the room. Seems to be a different subject but it is related to the speaker in question. Seat too close and the drivers don't integrate .. too far and too close to a wall and you have the reflections plus a wronged FR... so the dimensions of the room play a great role in the speaker one chooses.. I don't know the Wagner or the Cessaro best listening distance so I can't say .. it would require to listen to similar designs within your room to have an idea.
The VS are among my favorite when it comes to cones and they may be the solution ... on this Von S. had a speaker where the subs where in the back of the room and were DSP'ed for optimal response .. What about it? Don't know the budget ... In this relatively small room if my choice is between these two I would go VS

I am now a decidedly horn person... Will update you soon...

Now a little itch I need to scratch ... In what way a variable slope crossover would achieve true to form time alignment? If the crossovers lope varies so does the (eventual time algnment) and ... What is "true to form" time alignment.. We better take this to a different thread but I think such shouldn't be said without backing it up with some facts.

 

[Believe High Fidelity]

Now a little itch I need to scratch ... In what way a variable slope crossover would achieve true to form time alignment? If the crossovers lope varies so does the (eventual time algnment) and ... What is "true to form" time alignment.. We better take this to a different thread but I think such shouldn't be said without backing it up with some facts.

Given the OP desire to look at the two brands specifically I have only chimed in due to the suggestions of other members to consider the Symphonia as well. Just a value added post and not to go on a tangent about the Symphonia and its designs.