Can We / Should We "Balance" Our Way To Our Desired Sound?

Can you measure the IM distortion as well? What about Distortion vs level? You should get the FFT at many different levels to see if it stays with the same relative harmonic pattern. However, seeing the third harmonic a bit higher than the 2nd possibly have an audible consequence. There is a nice lack of high order components but that is why it would be nice to see higher levels to see if the grow in.

The preamplifier was being operated at 1V output - in my system using a CD I am sure it never played at an higher level.

I like looking at the harmonic spectra when varying the level and varying the frequency. It is an amusing experience. But a measurement should not result in a million values, it looses all its meaning and no correlation becomes possible. IMHO unless we have a mathematical model serious studies are impossible.

I never researched any audio subject seriously - I take this type of audio measurements mostly to check my equipment and please my audio curiosity.
 
Thanks I was referring to their power amps. I am Jadis fan, btw. I still have a JPL. Their JPS2 is outstanding.

I fully agree with you on the JPS2 . I have owned a Jadis JP80 mk2 - the JPS2 is the same preamplfier without phono. Still regret having sold it, but we can not keep it all ... Can you imagine it sounded really great on the DartZeel NH108?
 
Whether or not a component has a coloration is subjective. Therefore, I think whether or not something is neutral also is subjective.
The way to determine this is to play a huge variety of styles, and ages of recordings. The more neutral the system is, the more chameleon like it is - it takes on the "signature" of the recording each and every time, for better or worse. There's a good piece by the chap from Audio Note on this, it can be tracked down quite easily ...
 
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I fully agree with you on the JPS2 . I have owned a Jadis JP80 mk2 - the JPS2 is the same preamplfier without phono. Still regret having sold it, but we can not keep it all ... Can you imagine it sounded really great on the DartZeel NH108?

Oh so Jadis pre amps can drive SS amps? I would have assumed they had an higher output impedance. Could be wrong
 
The way to determine this is to play a huge variety of styles, and ages of recordings. The more neutral the system is, the more chameleon like it is - it takes on the "signature" of the recording each and every time, for better or worse. . . .

I think this makes good sense, at least in theory, as a way to "back in" to deciding how neutral is a component.
 
Respectfully, I think this goes too far. What you describe as the "analytic / transparency to source sound" (to devotees of such sound I suspect "analytic" is pejorative to start with) is not a sound I personally cotton to but I am very happy to defend it as a completely valid sonic preference.

The sound to which you refer (which I talk about, with respect to speakers, as "hyperfast-sounding" drivers) of Magico (I would add Tidal and Zellaton), Spectral, etc., is way more than a marketing or engineering approach. (I think such products embody amazing engineering and execution.)

Several people in whose ears I personally trust and respect and who like that sound consciously aim for that unadulterated, transparency-to-source sound which they find neutral, open, transparent, uncolored, detailed and realistic. They, obviously, do not find it to be a "coloration."

Hey Ron,

Let me explain a bit further:

The Latest ideas on cognitive and emotional processing discuss a 3 leveled structure.

Most immediate response is visceral. Visceral processing allows humans to make quick decisions regarding good, bad, safe, dangerous, etc. If an audio product fails here for an individual, it’s sayonara. You don’t need much deeper involvement with a product than the emotional reaction (too analytical, too colored, etc.)

The next level of cognitive processing is normal operational behavior– turn on or off, put on and take off, turn on and turn down, etc. Audiophiles are willing to forego all kinds of conveniences to get great sound, so this may or may not be relevant for all.

The final level is reflective. It is the least immediate level of processing information. It involves conscious consideration and reflection on past experiences. This is special to us, human beings, and allows to step away from the visceral and emotional elements (and operational) of an experience . It allows audiophiles to integrate our experiences into a broader whole of how we see the hobby and how it fits into our life - by associating meaning and value. Reflective processing is available only via memory.

With the cognitive and emotional theory out of the way, as we discussed in this thread already, there is a sonic signature or coloration to everything. People who like a certain signature get into the “flow” listening to it. But upon stepping away and reflecting, the sonic signature becomes apparent. Of course, not everyone chooses to do this. This is a hobby, after all. But we do expect the reviewers to do it. Yet guys like "worthless to the audio fan" Harley never do.

Additionally, I think the biggest difference between the “transparency to source” guys and everyone else, is they usually call their favorite product “best”, while everyone else is listening to badly colored gear. Furthermore, they provide reasons of good engineering to position themselves as "designing based on science" (as if everyone else is not!). So people in a market segment for whom science-based decision making is an important criteria can then have a piece of mind and write a big check.
 
+1

If an uninitiated person were to get to this board and read many posts he/she would conclude there is no objective reality to music reproduction that it is simply a matter of taste and everything goes...
They would also notice that Bose is not considered High End by us... Nor the AVRs some people use in HT to great effects ... Same for Polk as speakers goes .. or Axiom ... so ..

There is an objective reality, however much we claim and debate the contrary. There are ways to measure a portion of it not all of it IMO. UNfortunately there the space between what si being measured presently with what is not yet, is filled with the equivalent of noise: Lot of opinions, obfuscation and of misinformation that make our hobby almost unapproachable. For people to understand what our hobby should be about it is a matter of experiencing some really well put systems. Those systems give a glimpse of what is achievable. We, the experienced audiophiles, have come to think a good systems need to cost an arm and a leg and we go on spending appropriately. Most often a great system is the result of patience and care taken in assembling the speakers and what drives them and how those speakers interact with a given room. It is often as simple (and complicated ) as that for surprisingly good, believable sound. Listening recently to a la Klipsch Cornwall driven by a Peach Audio DAC/amp reminded of that.


Hey Frantz,

Why ignore the (objective :) ) reality that this hobby has both objective components and subjective elements driven by human perception? Mike L's post above mentions that the best engineered systems "get out of the way of the music".

Furthermore, if this were a purely objective hobby, there would be just a handful of brands with clearly defined product lines. Consumers could then select from a list of products with stated clear tradeoffs. Pretty much everyone spending big money would love to know the true value of an audio product. After all, if you want a laptop, it's so easy to check the size, weight, cpu, memory, software, etc. , regardless if it says Dell, HP, Lenovo, or whatever.

Unfortunately, not so in our hobby.
 
Thank you, caesar. I understand.
 
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Oh so Jadis pre amps can drive SS amps? I would have assumed they had an higher output impedance. Could be wrong

The RCA input of the NH108 has an input impedance around 200 kohm - it is tube friendly.
 

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