Burmester 909 mk5 vs Burmester 911 mk3

[dhruvgarg]

Great! Look forward to reading all about it.

Just to finish this thought here - I did play with the 948 power conditioner. It is a great device - the sonic differences are not subtle. Plugging it into my system ( 035 pre, 911 monos, B80 mk2) it instantly "sweetened" the tone. Seemed to add more even order harmonics , the distinctive Burmester "tone" was enhanced by it. Highs are lot more crisp with this unit. BUT - the bass lost a bit of weight but gained in speed. Without 948 the bass was a bit richer and had more slam with a softer/gentler timbre. Adding 948 - bass was precise ( NOT lean) and less colored. The absence of noise in the signal made it sound crisper like Burmester car stereo , I ab tested with/without 948 in my system for weeks, but i finally decided to return it and just use the system without 948. I personally enjoy the additional bass weight/slam without the 948 and am willing to give up some crispness. I have tinnitus too, so less crisp is overall better for me. Overall 948 is a great device! 911 monos /B80 are a great combo for both music and movies this way.

I will upgrade to 808 MK5 at some point. So expect to gain the tonal sweetness and if needed will audition 948 again with it. thanks

 

[dhruvgarg]

911 Mk3 is very much better than 956 Mk2 monos or stereo version. To achieve the best sound from any Burmester Power Amp, I recommend to use a Burmester preamp. With 911 Mk3 the best preamp is 808 Mk5. Other excellent preamps are the 077's and 088's.

hi Rocco! just wanted to know how is B100 different from the B80 speakers ? Is it a good upgrade over B80 ? I think based on online forums - you are one of the rare folks who have owned both these speakers so would be delighted to hear your experience! thanks

 

[LL21]

Just to finish this thought here - I did play with the 948 power conditioner. It is a great device - the sonic differences are not subtle. Plugging it into my system ( 035 pre, 911 monos, B80 mk2) it instantly "sweetened" the tone. Seemed to add more even order harmonics , the distinctive Burmester "tone" was enhanced by it. Highs are lot more crisp with this unit. BUT - the bass lost a bit of weight but gained in speed. Without 948 the bass was a bit richer and had more slam with a softer/gentler timbre. Adding 948 - bass was precise ( NOT lean) and less colored. The absence of noise in the signal made it sound crisper like Burmester car stereo , I ab tested with/without 948 in my system for weeks, but i finally decided to return it and just use the system without 948. I personally enjoy the additional bass weight/slam without the 948 and am willing to give up some crispness. I have tinnitus too, so less crisp is overall better for me. Overall 948 is a great device! 911 monos /B80 are a great combo for both music and movies this way.

I will upgrade to 808 MK5 at some point. So expect to gain the tonal sweetness and if needed will audition 948 again with it. thanks

Good to know! We use the 948 for the source, preamp, Kaleidescape movie server, but not the amp. The 948 and the amp both go straight into the Torus AVR16. Seems like based on your experience, we might have inadvertently ended up using it well. (We did not put the amps through it because with the Gryphon Mephisto and now the Robert Koda monos we just did not want to blow something.)

Meanwhile, you have great system...and no doubt are enjoying endless slam! Thanks for taking the time to come back with that.

Lloyd

 

[dhruvgarg]

Good to know! We use the 948 for the source, preamp, Kaleidescape movie server, but not the amp. The 948 and the amp both go straight into the Torus AVR16. Seems like based on your experience, we might have inadvertently ended up using it well. (We did not put the amps through it because with the Gryphon Mephisto and now the Robert Koda monos we just did not want to blow something.)

Meanwhile, you have great system...and no doubt are enjoying endless slam! Thanks for taking the time to come back with that.

Lloyd

Good to hear from you Lloyd and congrats on your great setup too. I did the same - just used 948 to power the sources only ( preamp and dac). I even tried it on 911 amp by mistake and i got significantly reduced dynamics. Didn't blow anything up but lesson learnt that its meant for sources only.

Have a good weekend!

 

[LL21]

Good to hear from you Lloyd and congrats on your great setup too. I did the same - just used 948 to power the sources only ( preamp and dac). I even tried it on 911 amp by mistake and i got significantly reduced dynamics. Didn't blow anything up but lesson learnt that its meant for sources only.

Have a good weekend!

Interesting! Maybe I have no dynamics to lose! All kidding aside, these kinds of things are (for me) all tailor-made refinements on the base fundamental system...and each refinement is not only different, its also about the ears. Thanks for the clarification. And who knows...maybe if I get really bored, I will move everything out of the 948 straight into the Torus...would be interesting to see what happens. Its been a long time since we have had the 948.

 

[dhruvgarg]

Interesting! Maybe I have no dynamics to lose! All kidding aside, these kinds of things are (for me) all tailor-made refinements on the base fundamental system...and each refinement is not only different, its also about the ears. Thanks for the clarification. And who knows...maybe if I get really bored, I will move everything out of the 948 straight into the Torus...would be interesting to see what happens. Its been a long time since we have had the 948.

Couldn't agree more ! It is all about the ears, and does have a lot of subjectivity baked in. The base system is extremely great to begin with , but the basic nature of our mind never ceases to maximize our listening pleasure so experiments keep happening and wont end anytime soon

 

[dhruvgarg]

Couldn't agree more ! It is all about the ears, and does have a lot of subjectivity baked in. The base system is extremely great to begin with , but the basic nature of our mind never ceases to maximize our listening pleasure so experiments keep happening and wont end anytime soon

Forgot to add. If you remove your amps out of 948 , from my experience you will see lot more improvement overall - better bass slam, highs , etc. The difference is NOT subtle. 948 can limit the overall current as its just a 500 watt source. Power amps are notorious for extracing 10-16amps of current continuously on some passages of music. 948 is not meant to power those. The type of music played will also show a lot of variation in performance.

 

[LL21]

Thanks! Yes, we once were sold a power isolator 'with no limits' according to the seller...and the Gryphon MELTED the socket. I have NO idea how that happened, but I freaked out. Needless to say, they took it back sheepishly, and gave me a full credit towards another power isolator where the manufacturer directly gave us confidence the Gryphon would be fine. And we STILL did not use the Gryphon with it in the end.

 

[dhruvgarg]

Thanks! Yes, we once were sold a power isolator 'with no limits' according to the seller...and the Gryphon MELTED the socket. I have NO idea how that happened, but I freaked out. Needless to say, they took it back sheepishly, and gave me a full credit towards another power isolator where the manufacturer directly gave us confidence the Gryphon would be fine. And we STILL did not use the Gryphon with it in the end.

Cool ! its been a learning curve dealing with all this, sometimes scary (like in your case) but fun!

 

[Rocco I.]

hi Rocco! just wanted to know how is B100 different from the B80 speakers ? Is it a good upgrade over B80 ? I think based on online forums - you are one of the rare folks who have owned both these speakers so would be delighted to hear your experience! thanks

Hi.
The B100's is not comparable to the B80 Mk2. The B80's is a great performer, but very far to the B100's in all regards. The B100 is the electro-acoustic pinnacle of the late Dieter Burmester. It has a way of delivering music in a natural linear way, perfect coherency and with a timbre decidedly neutral, with a truly stunning dynamic freedom and ease of emission. The soudstage is large, the sense of space is incredible, the power and body of the instruments have a shocking verisimilitude. A rather unique speaker to my ears not just in the Burmester speaker portfolio.

 

[Rocco I.]

Just to finish this thought here - I did play with the 948 power conditioner. It is a great device - the sonic differences are not subtle. Plugging it into my system ( 035 pre, 911 monos, B80 mk2) it instantly "sweetened" the tone. Seemed to add more even order harmonics , the distinctive Burmester "tone" was enhanced by it. Highs are lot more crisp with this unit. BUT - the bass lost a bit of weight but gained in speed. Without 948 the bass was a bit richer and had more slam with a softer/gentler timbre. Adding 948 - bass was precise ( NOT lean) and less colored. The absence of noise in the signal made it sound crisper like Burmester car stereo , I ab tested with/without 948 in my system for weeks, but i finally decided to return it and just use the system without 948. I personally enjoy the additional bass weight/slam without the 948 and am willing to give up some crispness. I have tinnitus too, so less crisp is overall better for me. Overall 948 is a great device! 911 monos /B80 are a great combo for both music and movies this way.

I will upgrade to 808 MK5 at some point. So expect to gain the tonal sweetness and if needed will audition 948 again with it. thanks

Hi.
I've different experiences in the above matter. The 911 Mk3 monos and/or 909 Mk5 monos plugged into 948's had better sound in all regards compare direct plug to the wall. For my experience, nothing should be connected directed to the wall, because the voltage is always contaminated by emi/rfi. Thus, to improve more the already excellent sound quality with 948's, I have dedicated a superb balanced trafo (Very special component: Adyton 6K from Norway) direct to the 911's monos and 948's (only for sources and preamp).

 

[sujay]

Interesting! Maybe I have no dynamics to lose! All kidding aside, these kinds of things are (for me) all tailor-made refinements on the base fundamental system...and each refinement is not only different, its also about the ears. Thanks for the clarification. And who knows...maybe if I get really bored, I will move everything out of the 948 straight into the Torus...would be interesting to see what happens. Its been a long time since we have had the 948.

Hi Lloyd, can you please do me a favor and let me know the outcome of the experiment - ie all plugged into the Torus vs source and electronics, except power amp, plugged through the 948? In my set up currently, I have plugged everything directly into my Torus 16. And I agree with you, I absolutely don’t sense any loss of dynamics. But it would be interesting to see if I plug my source and pre into the 948 first and then the 948 into the Torus!

Thanks in advance

Sujay

 

[hogen]

Hi.
I've different experiences in the above matter. The 911 Mk3 monos and/or 909 Mk5 monos plugged into 948's had better sound in all regards compare direct plug to the wall. For my experience, nothing should be connected directed to the wall, because the voltage is always contaminated by emi/rfi. Thus, to improve more the already excellent sound quality with 948's, I have dedicated a superb balanced trafo (Very special component: Adyton 6K from Norway) direct to the 911's monos and 948's (only for sources and preamp).

I also do the same thing, power amp directly in the trafo Adyton 6k, and just sources and preamp in the B948 (which is also connected to the trafo).

 

[dhruvgarg]

Hi.
I've different experiences in the above matter. The 911 Mk3 monos and/or 909 Mk5 monos plugged into 948's had better sound in all regards compare direct plug to the wall. For my experience, nothing should be connected directed to the wall, because the voltage is always contaminated by emi/rfi. Thus, to improve more the already excellent sound quality with 948's, I have dedicated a superb balanced trafo (Very special component: Adyton 6K from Norway) direct to the 911's monos and 948's (only for sources and preamp).

thanks for sharing your experience Rocco! I'll give Adyton 6K a try on my dual 911 setup. Regards

 

[dhruvgarg]

Hi.
The B100's is not comparable to the B80 Mk2. The B80's is a great performer, but very far to the B100's in all regards. The B100 is the electro-acoustic pinnacle of the late Dieter Burmester. It has a way of delivering music in a natural linear way, perfect coherency and with a timbre decidedly neutral, with a truly stunning dynamic freedom and ease of emission. The soudstage is large, the sense of space is incredible, the power and body of the instruments have a shocking verisimilitude. A rather unique speaker to my ears not just in the Burmester speaker portfolio.

Thanks for sharing your experience Rocco! this is super helpful. Just so I understand this correctly in terms of B80 vs B100 difference: "the power and body of the instruments have a shocking verisimilitude" - now did you mean to say B80 has "less" overall power and body to instruments compared to B100 and less close to reality , or B80 has more body but not linear (maybe bloated midbass), but B100 is more linear and the relatively correct amount of bass/power/body and higher sense of reality ? thanks

On a different note I checked with my Burmester dealer and B100 is not in production any more . BC150 is the new model as one of the flagships. Just going by youtube videos - i'm not convinced its better than B100 - it seems to be more anaytical with thinner mids/body on the overall sound. Hope more demo videos come up somewhere but my hunch is it wont compare favorably against B100. In my subjective assessment B80 mk2 sounds better than BC150 with more overall body to the sound, I hence won’t upgrade unless I get a B100

 

[Rocco I.]

Thanks for sharing your experience Rocco! this is super helpful. Just so I understand this correctly in terms of B80 vs B100 difference: "the power and body of the instruments have a shocking verisimilitude" - now did you mean to say B80 has "less" overall power and body to instruments compared to B100 and less close to reality , or B80 has more body but not linear (maybe bloated midbass), but B100 is more linear and the relatively correct amount of bass/power/body and higher sense of reality ? thanks

Hi. Sorry for the late reply.
I've owned the fantastic B80's for several years. I've loved and still love it. I made a direct A/B comparison and the B100's has NOT any common parameter with B80's. The way to express music of B100's is shocking natural and while you listen it the only think you're focus is the MUSIC in its total entirety, completeness and harmonic richness. At my ears the B100's is a Truly Monumental Landmarks in terms of Acoustic Loudspeakers. The B100 is like a movie model, it requires all possible care to set-up it it in the best possible electrical and acoustic conditions. You will be rewarded with an Absolute Reference musical performance.

 

[dhruvgarg]

Hi. Sorry for the late reply.
I've owned the fantastic B80's for several years. I've loved and still love it. I made a direct A/B comparison and the B100's has NOT any common parameter with B80's. The way to express music of B100's is shocking natural and while you listen it the only think you're focus is the MUSIC in its total entirety, completeness and harmonic richness. At my ears the B100's is a Truly Monumental Landmarks in terms of Acoustic Loudspeakers. The B100 is like a movie model, it requires all possible care to set-up it it in the best possible electrical and acoustic conditions. You will be rewarded with an Absolute Reference musical performance.

Hi Rocco, no worries about the delay and thanks for sharing your experiences on b80 vs b100. I like the aspect of harmonic richness and every YouTube video I’ve seen on b100 just wows me. I’m simply going to go by your opinion and get the b100. 808 mk5 as well eventually

regards!

 

[dhruvgarg]

Hi. Sorry for the late reply.
I've owned the fantastic B80's for several years. I've loved and still love it. I made a direct A/B comparison and the B100's has NOT any common parameter with B80's. The way to express music of B100's is shocking natural and while you listen it the only think you're focus is the MUSIC in its total entirety, completeness and harmonic richness. At my ears the B100's is a Truly Monumental Landmarks in terms of Acoustic Loudspeakers. The B100 is like a movie model, it requires all possible care to set-up it it in the best possible electrical and acoustic conditions. You will be rewarded with an Absolute Reference musical performance.

Hi Rocco, thought I let you know that after reading all your experiences and watching B100 videos on youtube, i went ahead and ordered them I will be upgrading from B80 Mk2 , so my setup would be 035 pre, 911 dual Monos and B100. In a year or two I'll add the 808 MK5 as well. Now the harder part is the wait ( maybe a month or two) but looking forward to experiencing this musical gem Regards !

 

[Rocco I.]

Hi Rocco, thought I let you know that after reading all your experiences and watching B100 videos on youtube, i went ahead and ordered them I will be upgrading from B80 Mk2 , so my setup would be 035 pre, 911 dual Monos and B100. In a year or two I'll add the 808 MK5 as well. Now the harder part is the wait ( maybe a month or two) but looking forward to experiencing this musical gem Regards !

Hi. That's great news. You'll be rewarded with an Absolute Reference musical performance.

 

[dhruvgarg]

Hi. That's great news. You'll be rewarded with an Absolute Reference musical performance.

Hi Rocco, hope you are doing well.

I did get the B100s and listened to them for some time. Unfortunately for my taste I like the B80 Mk2 better. B100 is a little fuller in the mids but the low frequencies are a little more forward and punchier on the B80s. It can be subjectively argued that B100 is a more neutral or reference grade sound. B100 sounds closest to the Burmester car stereos (delicate mids/highs) - minus the low frequency weight.

Cables and 808 mk5 are the only upgrades left . I''ll be exploring Esprit cables . Tried Burmester silver cables, they do sound a little lean and forward sounding for my taste.