Best "low wattage" Integrate amps for efficient speakers
- Thread starter DEV
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Do you prefer P/P or SET? I'd love to hear the P/P Nagra, but its a rare bird in the US. I've recently had the Melody AN845 on loan which is a strong integrated with great bass for SET. I'd say its more modern sounding than the Italians. The KR Audio VA350i is the other SET I'd like to hear- have only heard the Kronzilla- SET with tremendous authority.
On the SS front, I currently run a DarTZeel on 100db speakers and find its "first watt" exceptional. The Lavardin IT might be another good option if you can live without remote.
On the SS front, I currently run a DarTZeel on 100db speakers and find its "first watt" exceptional. The Lavardin IT might be another good option if you can live without remote.
KR and Ayon are my two favorites David. At 98dB I'd be looking at output from 18wpc up. Considering you are coming from MBLs and 450 IQs. I'm assuming you like to boogie from time to time.
If we accept really low power I would consider the Jadis DA30. If we need more power the Jadis DA88. The new version of the D88 even includes a remote!
They are fabulous bargains in the used market in Europe!
They are fabulous bargains in the used market in Europe!
I heard the Jadis DA88 recently and thought it was just superb. I haven't compared it to enough alternatives to sensibly comment on this thread, but it really is excellent for the money. In fact, I'm seriously considering going in that direction myself.
Allot of great pces guys that I haven't thought of - thx keep them coming.
Hi Jack - thanks. I'm looking forward to seeing both you and your brothers room once completed with the new speakers installed.
When talking to the designer of the speakers I currently have I was told he never designed the speakers with the intentions of them be driven via push pull design.
I have ventured into wanting to simplify my system but still have the high SQ as I love my music - not much of any product to try.
Keith - I did have my VAC's paired up - if it was the other way around I would have never purchased these amps to pair up - to me just too much of amp and not necessary. The sound was okay but nothing that said wow! like when paired up with my MBL's hence my decision for selling them which I have done.
Currently due to being amp less and still needing further break-in I dug into my stash and found some very old SS Yamaha mono blocks made in Japan. Just cheap stuff but work - connected them to my Vac pre-amp and the rest on my system as seen in my Signature and holly crap total shock - this is sounding pretty darn good - actually better than good. How can this be I ask myself, I say it's gotta be a combination of what's feeding them along with the speakers not being too overly picky to sound good.
I have planned to go to the RMAF Show again this Fall as there will be several different pces there that interest me - I'll get to see in person - see the build quality first hand - how quiet or not they are mechanically speaking - how much or little heat thrown off and possibly hear something half decent.
Hi Jack - thanks. I'm looking forward to seeing both you and your brothers room once completed with the new speakers installed.
When talking to the designer of the speakers I currently have I was told he never designed the speakers with the intentions of them be driven via push pull design.
I have ventured into wanting to simplify my system but still have the high SQ as I love my music - not much of any product to try.
Keith - I did have my VAC's paired up - if it was the other way around I would have never purchased these amps to pair up - to me just too much of amp and not necessary. The sound was okay but nothing that said wow! like when paired up with my MBL's hence my decision for selling them which I have done.
Currently due to being amp less and still needing further break-in I dug into my stash and found some very old SS Yamaha mono blocks made in Japan. Just cheap stuff but work - connected them to my Vac pre-amp and the rest on my system as seen in my Signature and holly crap total shock - this is sounding pretty darn good - actually better than good. How can this be I ask myself, I say it's gotta be a combination of what's feeding them along with the speakers not being too overly picky to sound good.
I have planned to go to the RMAF Show again this Fall as there will be several different pces there that interest me - I'll get to see in person - see the build quality first hand - how quiet or not they are mechanically speaking - how much or little heat thrown off and possibly hear something half decent.
Hey David, It's some time off but surely
Are you keeping your pre-amp? I thought you were looking for a SET integrated. If it's stereo or mono block amps you are looking for then the choices multiply almost exponentially. I'm obviously biased towards Lamm and I'm very sure the ML2.2s will be great. ML3s near unimpeachable except for that they need a whole lot of space. I also like Kondo and the already mentioned KR and Ayon pieces. If Absolare sounds anywhere near as good as they look, they should be awesome too.
If I had 98dB efficient speakers and didn't want to spend in the vicinity of a new AMG then the ML2.2 would be the amps I'd be looking at hardest followed closely by KR DX IIs. The 100wpc of SET Parallel may be overkill but then again.........
Hey David, It's some time off but surely
Are you keeping your pre-amp? I thought you were looking for a SET integrated. If it's stereo or mono block amps you are looking for then the choices multiply almost exponentially. I'm obviously biased towards Lamm and I'm very sure the ML2.2s will be great. ML3s near unimpeachable except for that they need a whole lot of space. I also like Kondo and the already mentioned KR and Ayon pieces. If Absolare sounds anywhere near as good as they look, they should be awesome too.
If I had 98dB efficient speakers and didn't want to spend in the vicinity of a new AMG then the ML2.2 would be the amps I'd be looking at hardest followed closely by KR DX IIs. The 100wpc of SET Parallel may be overkill but then again.........
I agree about the ML 2.2 Jack
For last five years I use SET Ayon Crossfire with Duo Omega from AG, 107 db of efficiency. Ayon makes valves in their own factory and they achieved around 30 wpc from a kind of 300B which is called A62B. Very transparent, fast and far from being dull , but well saturated and with fantastic holography.
Since last year this is the third version of Crossfire , in my opinion the best one. Very good match for efficient speakers, not only IMO.
Here is opinion of another WBF user about Crossfire from the thread about Avantgarde speakers:
"A) Amps: I have tried/owned many amps with my horns (pass, tom evans, leben, bat, audio note, lfd...) and in my opinion Avantgarde do need tube amps to get the best out of them. At the moment I am listening to the newest ayon crossfire iii and I am totally thrilled - I have never heard so homogenous, organic and lifelike music in my life. Also my experience with audio note jinro is very good. But you need to consider three important things when choosing the right amp: although horns have very high sensitivity and you can drive them with very little amps, they do need 20-30 high quality tube watts in order to maintain their amazing dynamics; noise (hum and hiss) is an issue therefore test the amp before buying. Noise can be many times omitted by tube selection, hum can be much bigger issue; gain structure of the amp is important in oder to be able to fully use the volume control. If the gain is too high you will be able to use only very little window of the volume control and music will be too loud right from the beginning..."
Since last year this is the third version of Crossfire , in my opinion the best one. Very good match for efficient speakers, not only IMO.
Here is opinion of another WBF user about Crossfire from the thread about Avantgarde speakers:
"A) Amps: I have tried/owned many amps with my horns (pass, tom evans, leben, bat, audio note, lfd...) and in my opinion Avantgarde do need tube amps to get the best out of them. At the moment I am listening to the newest ayon crossfire iii and I am totally thrilled - I have never heard so homogenous, organic and lifelike music in my life. Also my experience with audio note jinro is very good. But you need to consider three important things when choosing the right amp: although horns have very high sensitivity and you can drive them with very little amps, they do need 20-30 high quality tube watts in order to maintain their amazing dynamics; noise (hum and hiss) is an issue therefore test the amp before buying. Noise can be many times omitted by tube selection, hum can be much bigger issue; gain structure of the amp is important in oder to be able to fully use the volume control. If the gain is too high you will be able to use only very little window of the volume control and music will be too loud right from the beginning..."
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Hey David, It's some time off but surely
Are you keeping your pre-amp? I thought you were looking for a SET integrated. If it's stereo or mono block amps you are looking for then the choices multiply almost exponentially. I'm obviously biased towards Lamm and I'm very sure the ML2.2s will be great. ML3s near unimpeachable except for that they need a whole lot of space. I also like Kondo and the already mentioned KR and Ayon pieces. If Absolare sounds anywhere near as good as they look, they should be awesome too.
If I had 98dB efficient speakers and didn't want to spend in the vicinity of a new AMG then the ML2.2 would be the amps I'd be looking at hardest followed closely by KR DX IIs. The 100wpc of SET Parallel may be overkill but then again.........
Hi Jack, right now I'm looking at my options but keeping in mind still after the high SQ, utilizing a integrate that would be my preference. Yes I agree if I look at stereo or mono blocks there are even further multiple choices - my choice would mono blocks and the ML2.2's for sure would be on my short list.
I have personally never been exposed to this before - speakers really being so easy to drive but at the same time still providing desirable dynamics - volume, sound qualities etc. They are to date the only high efficient speakers that I have found that I actually liked period, I haven't heard everything but have heard allot. This is a whole new world and journey for me which has left me in shock so far. I only wish I had more exposure to trying different amplification easily, would make my decisions all that more simplified along with educating me at the same time.
I'm going to share something that just happened the other day - a friend whom owns a very nice system dropped by in the evening - we haven't connected for some time. Last time he was here I had already sold my MBL's and looking to sell my EA MM3's so he heard them set-up last. Where my current speakers sit they were not visible due to it being dark but were playing, my friend had no clue what was there.
He sat for a listen - I put on music of his choice. In the end still without him seeing we chatted with music playing in the back ground - I was interested in his thoughts. He was ecstatic saying; wow what have you changed, your system sounds so realistic and relaxed at the same time - relaxed not being bad in any areas. Your bass is the best I have heard over all to date never mind the entire sound - he went on and on. Honestly not one negative - inside I was laughing.
I put on the lights so he could see - the look on his face and words could not describe. He kept saying no way, it's not possible. I said I know I agree, if I wasn't experiencing it first hand I would not believe either. He hadn't ever seen this speaker before as most haven't, specially this revised model with the new drivers because only a hand full are out there currently - then he saw those Yamaha mono blocks. Asked how much - I told him $20K my cost which is a steel of a deal with a straight face initially but then shortly after started laughing and saying more like a couple of hundred.
Thanks - yes that Ayon pce is on my short list - I'm hoping there will be one at the RMAF Show coming up in Denver.
If you're going to RMAF check out Serious Stereo from Dennis Fraker.
I run my home built version, SupaNova45, about 2W, on my Duos and they are pretty remarkable. Bonzo heard them and thought the Duos sounded pretty good. You don't need huge watts on high efficiency speakers unless you have a big room or like it LOUD!
My SupaNova45.
Keep looking and listening and report back.
Cheers
Blue58
Edit, just realised OP was re. integrated and only 98dB , 2W not gonna do it!
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Hi Dev,
I believe that I have mentioned this amplifier choice to you before, not an integrated, but the ML2.2 is SET done right...as with Jack and Steve, dlr. disclosure.
Jack, Steve...+1
Cheers!
Alan
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