Ayre KX-R Twenty thoughts?

[tobiasrankin]

Anyone who has heard it or owns it... thoughts? Any comparisons you did ?

 

[sbnx]

Check out jays audio lab on youtube. He compares it to several top notch preamps.

 

[tobiasrankin]

Ya I've been watching his videos... hes a bit hard to take seriously though after he said the pass xp30 is the worst preamp hes ever heard.

 

[divertiti]

Ya I've been watching his videos... hes a bit hard to take seriously though after he said the pass xp30 is the worst preamp hes ever heard.

That's not at all what he said, he said the XP30 is the worst preamp he has had in his system in 2020. Considering the level of gear that has gone through that place, I 100% believe him. Pass makes better amps than preamps, and neither are at the summit-fi level.

 

[thedudeabides]

Regarding Post No. 4, I have the following comments. Was the 30 broken in? How long did he have it in his system for evaluation? Synergy issues with his other gear? Issue with the unit being reviewed? Have you personally auditioned the 30 and if so, in what system?

Neither amps or preamps are at the "summit-fi" level. Really?

Given the numerous positive reviews that I've read on the XP30 and my personal experience with my various systems over the past decade and change, there seems to be a disconnect between Jays Audio and other reviewers. You want to believe him 100%. Really? I, like other serious hobbyists, would never buy in 100% to any reviewers comments. Way to much subjectivity involved in the process. And several other well respected forum members, with systems far more revealing than mine, own Pass Labs gear.

For whatever reason, you appear to have a anti-Pass bias. To make an informed opinion on one negative review (assuming that's the case) is silly and indefensible. And to claim that Pass Labs does not design / make products that are at the "summit-fi" level is absurd.

See the link below on Jays review of the Pass Labs XS300's vs the the DAG Momentums M440's. For those that don't want to watch the video, he "preferred" the Pass over the DAG on his review system at that time. Both mono blocks are a serious assault on SOTA amplification.

19:32 Now playing

 

[sbnx]

Ya I've been watching his videos... hes a bit hard to take seriously though after he said the pass xp30 is the worst preamp hes ever heard.

He did say it was the worst preamp he had in 2020. But I wouldn't focus on that. Rather the I focus on the adjectives he uses when he compares this vs. that. For example, his main beef with the Pass preamp was that it was "slow sounding". I take that to mean not very dynamic. So if I was looking for more dynamics then I would pass on the Pass.

He has compared the Ayre preamp against the D'Agostino and the Boulder 2110 for sure. He has likely compared it against others as well. I think you could probably piece together his comments in comparing all of these to get an idea of the Ayre attributes in his system. Althought the D'Agostino is about 1.5X the price and the Boulder over 2X.

 

[microstrip]

No experience with the Ayre KRX Twenty, but I hosted the Ayre KRX + MXR system for about a year and the combo sounded very good. Surely not tube like sound. The only down aspect was the reliability of the MXR monoblocks (too much heat for such a small box), but as far as I know the problem was solved in the twenty series.

 

[tobiasrankin]

At 25:45 he says 'of 2020'... but then he goes on to say, 'the worst preamplifier I have EVER owned in here in my time in my dedicated room'.

Its interesting... obviously everyone has a different opinion. But from reading dozens of view points it seems the XP22 and XP30 offer similar levels of performance and sound. The XP22 and Merrill christine are close. Jay claims the christine is an amazing pre-amplifier that really surprised him yet the XP30 is the 'worst'. Makes me think either there was some issue with this unit/warm up time or hes just a silly person. I'm not saying everyone in the world MUST LOVE pass labs. But to suggest its 'that bad' i think is silly. I think a much more sensible reviewer would have said it didn't perform as well as 'XYZ more expensive preamps in 2020' but its still a very good performing preamp overall.. or something akin to that. His tendency for extreme black and white statements make me not take him seriously.

I also find that he doesn't really respond to logic. When he got his Gryphon mephisto stereo he claimed it had 1,000,000 uf of capacitance. Someone on youtube replied uhh no it doesn't, its 500,000 uf. Then he said that person was wrong. The person provided evidence and I personally looked it up and that commenter was right... but he stubbornly refused to look at the evidence and specs carefully.

I think the main reason people enjoy watching him is because he cycles gear incredibly quickly and gives people tastes of some of the most expensive stuff in the world and that is alluring.

For example when he wrote in 1 video how a new stand 'left him without words'. Really? Facepalm.

 

[thedudeabides]

Based on his review of the XP30, other reviews of this product as well as other observations mentioned above, I have serious doubts regarding his credibility. My apologies to the OP for going off topic but when inaccurate / erroneous claims are made, they need to be rectified.

 

[tobiasrankin]

Based on his review of the XP30, other reviews of this product as well as other observations made mentioned above, I have serious doubts regarding his credibility. My apologies to the OP for going off topic but when inaccurate / erroneous claims are made, they need to be rectified.

Have to agree.

Anyway, any other experiences with Ayre KXR Twenty?

 

[jfrech]

I used to own MX-R's and demo'd the MX-R 20's extensively. I demoed a KX-R at the time I bought the MX-R's.

The KX-R (and 20 version) is excellent, it's strengths lie in the volume control (one of the best out there) and sonic characteristics are in ultra low noise, resolution and dynamics. Ditto the MX-R's.

At the time I demo'd the KX-R, I directly compared it to a BAT Rex, Nagra PL-L, Aesthetix Callisto and my BAT VK-51SE. I choose the Nagra to pair up with the MX-R's as the Nagra added a touch of weight and musicality (it was also more than 1/2 the price and didn't really loose much ground to the others).

I think your call here is how this fits into the context of your system today or tomorrow.

 

[tobiasrankin]

I used to own MX-R's and demo'd the MX-R 20's extensively. I demoed a KX-R at the time I bought the MX-R's.

The KX-R (and 20 version) is excellent, it's strengths lie in the volume control (one of the best out there) and sonic characteristics are in ultra low noise, resolution and dynamics. Ditto the MX-R's.

At the time I demo'd the KX-R, I directly compared it to a BAT Rex, Nagra PL-L, Aesthetix Callisto and my BAT VK-51SE. I choose the Nagra to pair up with the MX-R's as the Nagra added a touch of weight and musicality (it was also more than 1/2 the price and didn't really loose much ground to the others).

I think your call here is how this fits into the context of your system today or tomorrow.

Did you get a chance to hear the MXR Twenty in the same system as the other preamps here for a direct comparison ?

 

[divertiti]

Regarding Post No. 4, I have the following comments. Was the 30 broken in? How long did he have it in his system for evaluation? Synergy issues with his other gear? Issue with the unit being reviewed? Have you personally auditioned the 30 and if so, in what system?

Neither amps or preamps are at the "summit-fi" level. Really?

Given the numerous positive reviews that I've read on the XP30 and my personal experience with my various systems over the past decade and change, there seems to be a disconnect between Jays Audio and other reviewers. You want to believe him 100%. Really? I, like other serious hobbyists, would never buy in 100% to any reviewers comments. Way to much subjectivity involved in the process. And several other well respected forum members, with systems far more revealing than mine, own Pass Labs gear.

For whatever reason, you appear to have a anti-Pass bias. To make an informed opinion on one negative review (assuming that's the case) is silly and indefensible. And to claim that Pass Labs does not design / make products that are at the "summit-fi" level is absurd.

See the link below on Jays review of the Pass Labs XS300's vs the the DAG Momentums M440's. For those that don't want to watch the video, he "preferred" the Pass over the DAG on his review system at that time. Both mono blocks are a serious assault on SOTA amplification.

19:32 Now playing

Based on his review of the XP30, other reviews of this product as well as other observations mentioned above, I have serious doubts regarding his credibility. My apologies to the OP for going off topic but when inaccurate / erroneous claims are made, they need to be rectified.

There is no need to get defensive, I didn't meant to trigger any deep seated insecurities about the brand you own. It is pretty ironic that you came out guns blazing to take a righteous stand against "subjectivity", only to do so by invalidating and discrediting other people's experiences and opinions in favor of your own.

 

[jfrech]

Did you get a chance to hear the MXR Twenty in the same system as the other preamps here for a direct comparison ?

Yes, I thought the MXR 20 was more dynamic and resolute that the MXR. More energy in each note and more excitement. I did think it lost some of it's musicality however vs the MXR. Instead of upgrading my MXR's to 20's I sold them and purchased a Nagra Classic.

 

[gds7368]

Have to agree.

Anyway, any other experiences with Ayre KXR Twenty?

I had the original KXR which I factory upgraded to the KXR Twenty version, so I heard both for a couple years each. Very nice sounding and functioning preamplifier. Twenty upgrade helped and was worth it. Agree that its strength appears to be the volume control. At first I though the clunk with each change in volume detracted from the music, but I learned to appreciate it. I also had demo of Audio Research Reference 3 and preferred Ayre's solid state sound better, and also demo of Sim Audio Moon's top preamplifer at the time and found the Ayre more detailed and still relaxed and involving. Did not hold its value particularly well when I sold it. Rest of the system was Ayre CX-7eMP CD player, Classe CA-M600 monoblock amplifiers, B&W 800D2, Valhallan/Odin cables etc.

 

[thedudeabides]

I didn't meant to trigger any deep seated insecurities about the brand you own.

No insecurities on my end (I've had the amp for 12 years to date and have no intention of selling) nor the many other happy owners of Pass Labs gear. Out of respect for the OP, I won't bother responding anymore to your erroneous, indefensible posts. Bye.

 

[tobiasrankin]

Yes, I thought the MXR 20 was more dynamic and resolute that the MXR. More energy in each note and more excitement. I did think it lost some of it's musicality however vs the MXR. Instead of upgrading my MXR's to 20's I sold them and purchased a Nagra Classic.

Hows the Nagra Classic vs MXR and MXR 20 ?

 

[tobiasrankin]

I had the original KXR which I factory upgraded to the KXR Twenty version, so I heard both for a couple years each. Very nice sounding and functioning preamplifier. Twenty upgrade helped and was worth it. Agree that its strength appears to be the volume control. At first I though the clunk with each change in volume detracted from the music, but I learned to appreciate it. I also had demo of Audio Research Reference 3 and preferred Ayre's solid state sound better, and also demo of Sim Audio Moon's top preamplifer at the time and found the Ayre more detailed and still relaxed and involving. Did not hold its value particularly well when I sold it. Rest of the system was Ayre CX-7eMP CD player, Classe CA-M600 monoblock amplifiers, B&W 800D2, Valhallan/Odin cables etc.

You sold the KXR 20? What did you upgrade to ?

 

[jfrech]

Hows the Nagra Classic vs MXR and MXR 20 ?

Better. No other way to say it, which is why I bought it. The Nagra Classic (I was using a single vs the MX-R mono's) doesn't have the sheer power but I never really felt like it didn't have enough for 99% of my listening. The Nagra was more musical, more resolute, better imaging. I've since upgraded to the Nagra HD 2020 amps.

 

[gds7368]

You sold the KXR 20? What did you upgrade to ?

Changed to Boulder 2110 when I had a Boulder system. Then I changed to my current MSB system, which uses the DAC as a preamplifier so currently no preamplifier.

I think I got something around $11,500 for the KX-R 20 about 5 years ago.

I will say I look back on my Ayre/Classe/B&W system as extremely musical and enjoyable. I would highly recommend that system to anyone.