Audio Research releases Its 40th Anniversary Preamp

[mep]

Mark:

I find that very common with equipment though the ARC reports are maybe a little to the right of normal. Cartridges also display this characteristic--but here we might have a mechanical answer.

With electronics, you have to break in these new exotic caps for ridiculous lengths of time--that is related to where they're used in the circuit and the current that goes through them

Myles-I understand the issue, I just think the maufacturers should perform the burn-in and sell you the finished product with a fresh set of tubes so you have a *finished* product when you take it out of the box. And somebody pass the Jack Daniels please.

 

[naturephoto1]

Myles-I understand the issue, I just think the maufacturers should perform the burn-in and sell you the finished product with a fresh set of tubes so you have a *finished* product when you take it out of the box. And somebody pass the Jack Daniels please.

Mark,

Unfortunately for the makers to do that I am sure that there would be a substantial increase in the cost of the tube or SS product. Unfortunately all of the parts in the equipment do not break in at the same rate so that some may be improving others may be worsening in their performance during the burn-in.

Rich

 

[mep]

Mark,

Unfortunately for the makers to do that I am sure that there would be a substantial increase in the cost of the tube or SS product. Unfortunately all of the parts in the equipment do not break in at the same rate so that some may be improving others may be worsening in their performance during the burn-in.

Rich

Well, they are already charging you an arm and a leg, so why not go for another appendage? I think you are missing my point. Why buy a half-baked product that has to go in the oven and finish cooking before you can eat it? I think you have a right to expect that when you pay a premium price for an audio component, that it should be *finished* when you take it out of the box. Assuming you have an all tube system, not only are you burning up the tube life on the new piece, you are burning up tube life on your amp/preamp (amp in this case). If we are talking about 500 hours of burn-in for the new preamp to settle in and not sound like crap, that means you just killed 25% of the life of your output tubes (assuming 2000 hours as nominal life expectancy). Do the math and the lack of compensation from the OEM and you tell me who should be eating the cost. I say the OEM should keep his products in the oven until they are finished baking and then put in a fresh tube set so that you the consumer start off with an amp/preamp that is working as intended and you don't lose a significant portion of tube life on both your amp and preamp.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Myles-I understand the issue, I just think the maufacturers should perform the burn-in and sell you the finished product with a fresh set of tubes so you have a *finished* product when you take it out of the box. And somebody pass the Jack Daniels please.

I agree and you can add cables to the list! Some, or at least cj, do a short 48 burn-in on their top products. Can't say about their less expensive units.

 

[FrantzM]

Wow! such docile customers. So One is paying over $30,000 for a preamp and one has to wait 500 hours for it to sound right? So what happens when one changes tubes? Same process, again, 500 more hours?maybe less the rest of things would have done their things..err broke-in? If it is the rest of the circuits and not the tubes why isn't that done at the manufacturer's ? Talk about delayed gratification! I mean... for such a serious amount of money shouldn't, as Mark pointed, it be the duty of the manufacturer to burn-in the damn thing? I mean .really .. meanwhile the customers or afficionados are doing the PR for the company , finding all kind of excuses.. Will wonders ever cease? Are there other hobbies were customers are so compliant ? Out ... for now ...

 

[microstrip]

(...) So what happens when one changes tubes? Same process, again, 500 more hours?maybe less the rest of things would have done their things..err broke-in? (...) .

Audio Research and cj sell selected tubes that have been burned-in - it is good for reliability and sound. Probably other manufacturers than I do not know about do the same. After the initial burn-in you get uninterrupted good sound quality.

 

[FrantzM]

Audio Research and cj sell selected tubes that have been burned-in - it is good for reliability and sound. Probably other manufacturers than I do not know about do the same. After the initial burn-in you get uninterrupted good sound quality.

Good to know but that still doesn't address the question of why doesn't the manufacturer perform its own burn-in?

 

[microstrip]

Well, they are already charging you an arm and a leg, so why not go for another appendage? I think you are missing my point. Why buy a half-baked product that has to go in the oven and finish cooking before you can eat it? I think you have a right to expect that when you pay a premium price for an audio component, that it should be *finished* when you take it out of the box. Assuming you have an all tube system, not only are you burning up the tube life on the new piece, you are burning up tube life on your amp/preamp (amp in this case). If we are talking about 500 hours of burn-in for the new preamp to settle in and not sound like crap, that means you just killed 25% of the life of your output tubes (assuming 2000 hours as nominal life expectancy). Do the math and the lack of compensation from the OEM and you tell me who should be eating the cost. I say the OEM should keep his products in the oven until they are finished baking and then put in a fresh tube set so that you the consumer start off with an amp/preamp that is working as intended and you don't lose a significant portion of tube life on both your amp and preamp.

Your point is very reasonable, but if manufacturers had to keep a high price product in stock for one month for burn in the consumer will pay more - this is economics not hifi. Some high reliability products are expensive just because they have a long burn-in time before the final tests and certification.

BTW, if one dealer asks prospective buyers of an Anniversary preamplifier if they would prefer him to burn-in his preamplifier for one month or take it immediately home I can assure you that 99% of people will take it home!

 

[FrantzM]

Your point is very reasonable, but if manufacturers had to keep a high price product in stock for one month for burn in the consumer will pay more - this is economics not hifi. Some high reliability products are expensive just because they have a long burn-in time before the final tests and certification.

BTW, if one dealer asks prospective buyers of an Anniversary preamplifier if they would prefer him to burn-in his preamplifier for one month or take it immediately home I can assure you that 99% of people will take it home!

What can I say to that? maybe devotion is the term not docility... Ok then That answers my inquiries ...

 

[LL21]

it's all about what the market can bear...when they sell for "only one year", or only 250 units...consumers line up. And i bet there is some psychology that says when you've put in 500 hours into a burn-in period, you just become more "wedded" to the product because now you've spent time and commitment...

 

[microstrip]

I I had to do a flashback on equipment I owned that was particularly sensitive to burn-in I would immediately nominate the cj Premier 350. I have owned two of these amplifiers - not bought at the same time - for some years. Taken out of the box the amplifier sounded as some cheap and powerful transistor amplifiers - but after two weeks almost continuous play of Bach Brandenburg Concertos 4-6 at high level using dummy loads, it sounded as a completely different amplifier - some people will consider it too rich or tube like.

One disagreeable aspect of this amplifier is that if you power it off for a very long time it will sound harsh again. I still keep one Premier 350, that has not been in use for more than a year. Recently I connected it to my system and was disappointed, even after a one hour warm-up. Surely time to repeat burn-in!

 

[CKKeung]

Burn-in

it's all about what the market can bear...when they sell for "only one year", or only 250 units...consumers line up. And i bet there is some psychology that says when you've put in 500 hours into a burn-in period, you just become more "wedded" to the product because now you've spent time and commitment...

I also hate the long burn-in. ARC claims that it's so long because of the huge telfon capacitors but if they can check & burn-in all the tubes before installation, why not do it for the capacitors too?

However, I agree with microstrip that once out of the ARC factory, 99% of us will take it home rather than asking the dealers to do the burn-in at their shops! This is also true for new speakers which have a even longer & more painful burn-in period.

In Hong Kong, some audiophiles prefer buying the dealer's run-in demo pair of speakers (if they are in good condition) and there are some shops that offer burn-in service for cables using the Audioharma or Blue Heaven burn-in machines too.

 

[MylesBAstor]

What can I say to that? maybe devotion is the term not docility... Ok then That answers my inquiries ...

Frantz:

You want something that doesn't require burn in? Buy a Technics receiver. It will always sound bad.

Otherwise, no one else here seems to lose any sleep over the issue. Tubes take a 100 hours to burn-in. No big deal. It isn't like the equipment sounds like crap; usually the gear sounds pretty good and only gets better.

And some cable co's do burn-in their cables nowadays.

 

[mep]

SS always sounds better if it's left turned on 24/7. Tubes, I like to leave them on for at least two hours and it always seems like the more they cook the better they sound through the listening session. Sometimes I wonder how much of component *break-in* is related to the parts having to form vice having your ears adjust to the new sound. Kind of like when you drink one brand of beer and then switch over to something different. The next beer usually puts your taste buds in revolt and your taste buds are asking you WTFO. And then you get used to the next beer and everything is ok again.

We so seem to be entering into a new phase of break-in with teflon caps the size of beer cans or at least that's the word on the street. And the street always knows everything...

 

[MylesBAstor]

SS always sounds better if it's left turned on 24/7. Tubes, I like to leave them on for at least two hours and it always seems like the more they cook the better they sound through the listening session. Sometimes I wonder how much of component *break-in* is related to the parts having to form vice having your ears adjust to the new sound. Kind of like when you drink one brand of beer and then switch over to something different. The next beer usually puts your taste buds in revolt and your taste buds are asking you WTFO. And then you get used to the next beer and everything is ok again.

We so seem to be entering into a new phase of break-in with teflon caps the size of beer cans or at least that's the word on the street. And the street always knows everything...

I think the ears adaptation to the sound eg. stress, is one of the most overlooked areas of audio and one that among other factors IMHO negates ABX switching. The effect of different stressors and each's unique effect upon our bodies is being much more understood from the area of heat/cold to disease, etc.

 

[Orb]

SS always sounds better if it's left turned on 24/7. Tubes, I like to leave them on for at least two hours and it always seems like the more they cook the better they sound through the listening session. Sometimes I wonder how much of component *break-in* is related to the parts having to form vice having your ears adjust to the new sound. Kind of like when you drink one brand of beer and then switch over to something different. The next beer usually puts your taste buds in revolt and your taste buds are asking you WTFO. And then you get used to the next beer and everything is ok again.

We so seem to be entering into a new phase of break-in with teflon caps the size of beer cans or at least that's the word on the street. And the street always knows everything...

Although Mep if that was the case we would not have the situation where listeners can be put off their system by something that niggles them after owning it for 4-6 months.
Extended preferential listening does seem to exist, which counters to some extent that we get more used to an audio product where it goes from not enjoying to really liking it.
I agree there is a mechanism of adjustment to sounds, just not entirely sure that it has been thoroughly investigated when also considering extended listening preference with listener's error tolerances and threshold (Toole did some work on error tolerance and thresholds and that was interesting as it suggests in this situation we are not all equal).
A good example; how many here have had a system (noise floor-sibilance-whatever annoys someone) about it they do not like, and if they listen to this again and again do they end up really enjoying it or still find that factor a negative/distracting/reducing enjoyment.
From my experience we replace that component or stop playing the really poor albums (loudness wars and other factors) back to back.
Cheers
Orb

 

[LL21]

In Hong Kong, some audiophiles prefer buying the dealer's run-in demo pair of speakers (if they are in good condition) and there are some shops that offer burn-in service for cables using the Audioharma or Blue Heaven burn-in machines too.

I often do this...not just to avoid burn-in and save money...but also to ensure that the product has at least been working for a few hundred hours without problems. (presuming you trust your dealer). Every once in a while, a new product is just simply faulty and it can be very troublesome to get it fixed, re-fixed...it just happens from time to time. Plus, it also allows the dealer to free up some cash if he needed to buy the unit from the distributor which happens sometimes, and the unit is not something he needs to keep in stock all the time.

 

[CKKeung]

I often do this...not just to avoid burn-in and save money...but also to ensure that the product has at least been working for a few hundred hours without problems. (presuming you trust your dealer). Every once in a while, a new product is just simply faulty and it can be very troublesome to get it fixed, re-fixed...it just happens from time to time. Plus, it also allows the dealer to free up some cash if he needed to buy the unit from the distributor which happens sometimes, and the unit is not something he needs to keep in stock all the time.

Hi lloydelee21,

I guess the dealers may give you a special discount as well.

 

[LL21]

Hi lloydelee21,

I guess the dealers may give you a special discount as well.

Yes...if i can bargain for it!

 

[LL21]

Hi lloydelee21,

Simcity is not me but my friend. We just had a mutual home visit 4 hours ago!
He is a very active audiophile in Hong Kong and had visited many comrades' home & borrowed many gears to 'try' at his home.
He is now using CJ ACT2 and a CJ huge SS poweramp with his Sonus Faber speaker.
I will tell him that you are interested to know how CJ GAT compares with ARC Ref5 & FM preamps.

CK

Hi CKK, i just asked a reviewer who has reviewed both the ARC Ref 40, ARC Ref 5 and the CJ GAT. He said in his opinion the CJ GAT is on equal footing with the Ref 40 in performance, though they provide listerners different virtues. He also said both ARC Ref 40 and the CJ GAT were superior to the Ref 5.

Since i do not speak/write Chinese, i cannot register for Review33...so if SimCity wishes to share his thoughts on FM268 vs CJ GAT, he can perhaps post here?

no doubt, system synergy, etc are all extremely important, but it is helpful for me to get an idea (since i will probably not have the opportunity to hear ARC Ref 40 or FM268 in direct comparison to CJ GAT) to get opinions from experienced people (particularly when they have spent a lot of time with these components).