audio research ref 250 monoblocks

[microstrip]

Thanks for the compliment Philip. Having heard the ref 150, 250 and a 610 fitted with kt 120's I cant help but think that ARC has somewhat reverted back to a more classic tube sound. That typical 6550 slight upper mid glare of previous ARC amps is gone, banished. At the same time, images are denser, tonal colors more fleshed out. These 250's are the first amps I've tried that really seem to fully control and extract the difficult Mini's potential. It's almost unreal how a two way can pressurize a close to 500 sq/ft room driven by the ref 250. But as I earlier pointed out, I definitely hear a pervasive tube like warmth and bloom, a trait that I really like so I'm hoping that these amps' sonic character don't radically change as it approaches ARC's claimed 600 hour break in period.

Did you compare the REF250 with the REF610 fitted with KT120s and/or 6550s?

I once listened to a pair of Minis driven by REF610s and also could not understand how such small speakers could fill the room in such a way. Any one not having experienced it will tell us we are fools ...

 

[JackD201]

Does dafos have a new pair of twins? Woohoo!

Wait that looks odd. Does a pair of twins mean 4 babies?

New twins I mean! Woohoo again!

 

[mep]

I was mightly impressed with the sound of the Q-1s at RMAF.

 

[JackD201]

Haven't heard Q1s or Minis but as looks go, Minis by a mile.

Now where's that invitation to that South Forbes lair?

 

[dafos]

Name the date and time...the mini's actually came my way last march in a complicated trade deal with Jxxx that can rival any complex trade I've seen in the NBA. And frankly, I've been somewhat underwhelmed and have almost learned to live with the notion that JV's love affair with the Mini was somewhat overhyped. Until now....

 

[dafos]

Microstrip, I did a direct comparison of the ref 150 vs the kt 120'd ref 610. And despite the huge power advantage of the 610, it just seemed a touch to slow, almost like it was lumbering in comparison with the ref 150. If any, that pervasive tube like character was even more manifest with the updated 610. I'm just guessing but maybe the 610's power supply and output transformers, which were designed over 6 years ago specifically for the 6550, may not be up to the task of squeezing maximum performance from the kt 120's.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Microstrip, I did a direct comparison of the ref 150 vs the kt 120'd ref 610. And despite the huge power advantage of the 610, it just seemed a touch to slow, almost like it was lumbering in comparison with the ref 150. If any, that pervasive tube like character was even more manifest with the updated 610. I'm just guessing but maybe the 610's power supply and output transformers, which were designed over 6 years ago specifically for the 6550, may not be up to the task of squeezing maximum performance from the kt 120's.

Could be the switch in caps too as I think ARC has started using Teflons. That'll make all the difference in the world

 

[microstrip]

Microstrip, I did a direct comparison of the ref 150 vs the kt 120'd ref 610. And despite the huge power advantage of the 610, it just seemed a touch to slow, almost like it was lumbering in comparison with the ref 150. If any, that pervasive tube like character was even more manifest with the updated 610. I'm just guessing but maybe the 610's power supply and output transformers, which were designed over 6 years ago specifically for the 6550, may not be up to the task of squeezing maximum performance from the kt 120's.

Thanks. After two months with the REF150 I am finding difficult going back to other amplifiers. I have to wait until I can listen to the REF250s. Did you find that the REF250s did not loose the capability of the REF150 of showing micro nuances in the bass flow? (I can already see some rising eyebrows , but it is the best I can do describe it ) BTW, do you have a subwoofer?

 

[LL21]

Could be the switch in caps too as I think ARC has started using Teflons. That'll make all the difference in the world

Yes...in fact, i think Myles you might confirm that Teflon capacitors have played a key role in the evolution of the CJ sound as well...helping CJ to capture the best of transient speed and attack...with the CJ natural tonality for which they have been famous for over a generation.

 

[fas42]

Did you compare the REF250 with the REF610 fitted with KT120s and/or 6550s?

I once listened to a pair of Minis driven by REF610s and also could not understand how such small speakers could fill the room in such a way. Any one not having experienced it will tell us we are fools ...

Not the slightest bit surprised. A speaker with high quality drivers and an amplifier with genuine capabilities should be able to create an enormous sound, irrespective of the size of the box: usually the biggest failing with small boxes is that the user doesn't lock them down tightly to a solid surface, "couple" them to the room's structure. As soon as you do that, it stops the bouncing around which gives you that "little speaker" sound.

Frank

 

[jadis]

Thanks for the compliment Philip. Having heard the ref 150, 250 and a 610 fitted with kt 120's I cant help but think that ARC has somewhat reverted back to a more classic tube sound. That typical 6550 slight upper mid glare of previous ARC amps is gone, banished. At the same time, images are denser, tonal colors more fleshed out. These 250's are the first amps I've tried that really seem to fully control and extract the difficult Mini's potential. It's almost unreal how a two way can pressurize a close to 500 sq/ft room driven by the ref 250. But as I earlier pointed out, I definitely hear a pervasive tube like warmth and bloom, a trait that I really like so I'm hoping that these amps' sonic character don't radically change as it approaches ARC's claimed 600 hour break in period.

My pleasure, dafos. And thanks for the invite. The 6550's character, as you pointed out so rightly, is not there, and I am so close to replacing my own 6550s into KT88s soon. I forgot to mention that in one cut of the UK Bluenote sampler which was a promo copy, I was bowled over by the tremendous dynamics showed by the ref 250/Mini combination. There was punch and sock that one hardly can imagine to come out of such small monitors. It almost sounded like it was full-range, in that Dianne Reeve's 'Better Days' cut. And that good thing about your mini's is that you can easily re-position them to find their best placement in room unlike other 'Gibraltar-like- loudspeakers.

 

[dafos]

Microstrip, to be honest I can't really comment on the "bass flow" since I'm not too particular with the bass. Why do you think I can live with the mini's WITHOUT a subwoofer although I'm now entertaining the thought of trying one. What I'd like to find out from other users of the new reference amps who also owned the older 6550 based ARC amps if they share my opinion on the character of these newer amps.

Philip, that Dianne Reeves cut was something else...even at the highest notes, Reeve's voice remained focused, clear and warm with nary a hint of glare or edge.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Microstrip, to be honest I can't really comment on the "bass flow" since I'm not too particular with the bass. Why do you think I can live with the mini's WITHOUT a subwoofer although I'm now entertaining the thought of trying one. What I'd like to find out from other users of the new reference amps who also owned the older 6550 based ARC amps if they share my opinion on the character of these newer amps.

Philip, that Dianne Reeves cut was something else...even at the highest notes, Reeve's voice remained focused, clear and warm with nary a hint of glare or edge.

One thing -- think the Q1s do need a lot of power. They sounded very nice with the Boulder amps but the Viva just didn't seem to have any balls on the Magicos. Sounded pretty but too tubey. Think the amp was really running out of steam. I think the Vivas are just 28 wpc or so. So just because they're small speakers doesn't mean they don't like a big amp driving them.

 

[dafos]

I believe that by their very nature, a sealed two way will inherently be hard to drive. Imagine the pressure within that small sealed cabinet which the amp has to contend with as a small driver struggles to reproduce both mid and low frequencies.

 

[JackD201]

I'll give you a call after New Years bro

 

[dafos]

Anytime Jack...

 

[microstrip]

Name the date and time...the mini's actually came my way last march in a complicated trade deal with Jxxx that can rival any complex trade I've seen in the NBA. And frankly, I've been somewhat underwhelmed and have almost learned to live with the notion that JV's love affair with the Mini was somewhat overhyped. Until now....

Dafos,

Are you still listening to the Mini's two with the Ref250's?

 

[dafos]

Sorry for late reply, yes still the Mini with the 250's and just getting better. See my comments on auditioning JL Audio subs with the Mini.

 

[LL21]

Sorry for late reply, yes still the Mini with the 250's and just getting better. See my comments on auditioning JL Audio subs with the Mini.

Hi Dafos...sounds nice! Where are your comments on JL Audio and mini? i'd like to read them! thanks.