ATC VS WILSON SASHA

[Addicted to hifi]

Both brands are excellent but very different sounding.

 

[Addicted to hifi]

I would go with Wilson audio. Not many speakers use dome midrange drivers anymore.

 

[Brad Lunde]

I would go with Wilson audio. Not many speakers use dome midrange drivers anymore.

Since the 3 inch middome is an ATC product development idea, there has never been many speakers that had it. ATC wont sell it OEM these days as ATC's own finished speaker sales are absorbing the entire production.
Brad

 

[T. A. E. Brown]

Since the 3 inch middome is an ATC product development idea, there has never been many speakers that had it. ATC wont sell it OEM these days as ATC's own finished speaker sales are absorbing the entire production.
Brad

Among ATC's strong selling points, in my opinion. When making buying decisions, I consider whether a company has a long and stable history of ownership, enjoys a good reputation among professionals, and shows a commitment to continuing research and development. I figure such a company is likely to stay in business well into the future and take pride in servicing its products in the long term. I really like the fact that ATC makes its own drivers.

T. A. E. Brown
Franconia, New Hampshire USA

 

[Addicted to hifi]

Since the 3 inch middome is an ATC product development idea, there has never been many speakers that had it. ATC wont sell it OEM these days as ATC's own finished speaker sales are absorbing the entire production.
Brad

That’s probably why Proac don’t use it anymore.

 

[Brad Lunde]

Among ATC's strong selling points, in my opinion. When making buying decisions, I consider whether a company has a long and stable history of ownership, enjoys a good reputation among professionals, and shows a commitment to continuing research and development. I figure such a company is likely to stay in business well into the future and take pride in servicing its products in the long term. I really like the fact that ATC makes its own drivers.

T. A. E. Brown
Franconia, New Hampshire USA

Everyone used to build drivers- now hardly anyone does. Even big players have moved away from this, it such a different business. A very different set of engineers and assemblers and also a "dirty" business with lot of chemicals and environmental issues. I remember EV used to build everything on site in Buchanan and it eventually became an EPA supersite- EPA even removed the dirt under the old plant! Even some that advertise "their own driver" have a variant of something common made just for them OEM. Then they can say its "just ours". NO way to tell if the variant is completely unique or just a different part number with a small cosmetic variation. Its getting hard to tell if a manufacturer really makes drivers in house anymore and it can be a very big deal. I know that 3 inch mid dome ATC builds is a crazy overbuilt part- 3 inch voice coil, double suspension, huge motor, it would not be possible to make money selling it OEM. NO one could pay the price of the part!

 

[marty]

I want to start a thread that is " Your speaker demo is really a room demo". Many of the comments made on speaker demos (and not just ATC) are really about the room and what it does (to any speaker). I see people put speakers on the floor in a corner where you'd get anywhere from +6 to +9dB boost on the low end from that placement alone and proclaim the speaker to have "flabby bass". Or toe them in so much they have one tiny little sweet spot. Many of these set up errors make a flat speaker sound anything but flat and can completely alter the sound of the speaker at your ears. The room and its effects on your speaker and sum together so seemlessly you'd swear its coming from the speaker that way. A room with tons of glass will be bright almost no matter what you do. A room with too much absorptive material will make speakers sound very dark, making a perfect speaker sound like it has no high end. DSP cannot fix that. A small room will have no bass because the dimensions cannot support the length of a low frequency wave (20 Hz needs 56 feet ). DSP cannot fix that either. A room with very hard side walls (first reflection points) will not image well unless you treat these first reflection points or switch to super narrow dispersion speaker like a horn. Then horns have their own set of problems, like narrowing at high frequency. I've seen a lot of goofy stuff, like a well known manufacturer demoing speakers pushed against the side walls of the room, completely screwing up the image. And its not just audiophiles, studio engineers can make the exact same mistakes. Heck I made the same mistakes 30 years ago!

If I hear someone say ATC's or Focals or Genelecs (or some other well engineered speaker) " didn't sound good in their room" I know they have a bad room or put them in a bad spot-and probably didn't know it. IF they say "I couldnt find a place in my room they sounded right" that I can believe. Many rooms are extremely difficult to get sounding right no matter what the speaker is.

If you find yourself setting up different speakers in the same spot over and over, none of them sounding better than what you already have, perhaps they all share the same "problem", its a big clue its the WRONG SPOT in the room. So the answer is experiment! Moving speakers is so easy and its remarkable how different they can be 2 inches away.

Rant over.

Brad

The topics of the ideal target response curve in a room and dsp have been discussed endlessly in many threads here. To cut to the chase, nobody advocates a flat frequency response at the listening position in most rooms. Variants of the Harmon curve and B&K microphoine curves seem to be the most popular solutions that deliver the best sound in most rooms.

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/thre...flat-target-curve-to-harmans-pro-curve.17823/

Does DSP belong in State of the Art Systems?

I've ordered a MiniDSP 2x4hd to play with. I'm going to play with only the crossover fuction as well as the timing/delay functions. It will sit between my DAC/PRE and one pair of RCAs going to my mains and the other pair going to my subs. I'm hoping/expecting better integration between my subs...

www.whatsbestforum.com

 

[Brad Lunde]

The topics of the ideal target response curve in a room and dsp have been discussed endlessly in many threads here. To cut to the chase, nobody advocates a flat frequency response at the listening position in most rooms. Variants of the Harmon curve and B&K microphoine curves seem to be the most popular solutions that deliver the best sound in most rooms.

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/thre...flat-target-curve-to-harmans-pro-curve.17823/

Does DSP belong in State of the Art Systems?

I've ordered a MiniDSP 2x4hd to play with. I'm going to play with only the crossover fuction as well as the timing/delay functions. It will sit between my DAC/PRE and one pair of RCAs going to my mains and the other pair going to my subs. I'm hoping/expecting better integration between my subs...

www.whatsbestforum.com

I do not see the connection between your statement and mine. DSP and room measurement is about "fixing" a room/speaker interface problem so its a task that occurs AFTER you buy the speakers. Yes, this has been debated endlessly.

I was talking about the practical reality of setting up a pair of speakers in a random listening room, our room or a customer's room, as a normal person would without measurement gear. It is VERY difficult, armed with speakers and gear to drive them, to achieve a proper demo of a pair of speakers in a typical living room or studio. The room influences the sound so dramatically as to make "the speakers sound" unrecognizable compared to the speaker sound outside the room (free space).

I have experienced this hundreds of times over the 45 years involved in the wholesale of pro and consumer. Whether the speakers "win", are judged as better, is almost always how room affects them, how it changes the speaker's sound, how the changes help or hurt this new speaker vs the one you already own; not how the speakers actually sound as designed. I am saddened by customers who plop speakers down in the same spot over and over and pronounce "that's where they go" and never try and move them around to experiment. This is not a problem just in consumer, studios do the same thing. They would rather buy new speakers because "those don't sound good in my room". No, the truth is nothing sounds good in that spot in that room. When as little as 2 inches of change in placement could make all the difference in the world in the sound, it's a shame this remains unexplored. The lack of performance is almost always blamed on speakers when it was always room.

Brad

It is a shame that many buy and sell speakers based on opinions that are really So my point was most of us never ever hear the speakers as they are supposed to sound, we hear them as our room affects them.

 

[marty]

Brad
I think we're more in agreement than you realize and that our posts are in fact very inter-related. The posts I sent do discuss dsp but mostly, the fact that the room is the 800 lb gorilla. You don't necessarily need dsp to fix that. These days there is almost no excuse for anyone with an iPhone not to use a free spectrum analyzer to facilitate optimum speaker placement in their room. DSP is not required, just some education and often modest listening effort.
Marty

 

[Brad Lunde]

Brad
I think we're more in agreement than you realize and that our posts are in fact very inter-related. The posts I sent do discuss dsp but mostly, the fact that the room is the 800 lb gorilla. You don't necessarily need dsp to fix that. These days there is almost no excuse for anyone with an iPhone not to use a free spectrum analyzer to facilitate optimum speaker placement in their room. DSP is not required, just some education and often modest listening effort.
Marty

Marty
Forgive my assumptions-your statement I can wholeheartedly agree with!
Brad

 

[Brad Lunde]

Is anyone coming to T.H.E Long Beach today or tomorrow? We are doing active vs passive demos of the floor stand ATC SCM 50. We are on the second floor.

Brad

 

[rblnr]

Re: designing your own drivers -- this also has a positive impact on crossover design because you control the whole interaction and can engineer as a complete, holistic system.

 

[Addicted to hifi]

osborn speakers are highly regarded in Australia and well as Hulgich. Dukes actually won Sterenet international hifi show award 2018.

Not a bad speaker for the money

 

[Addicted to hifi]

ive never heard the Sashas but ive heard the ATC 100 Actives about 2 months ago. the mid range is absolute magic. sound stage is pretty good in regards to depth, width and height. imo has plenty of bass but some may not think so. these speakers are tilted towards musicality.

i almost purchased these speakers but ordered the Hulgich Dukes instead.

Hulgich dukes are ok speakers for the money but atc 100 are miles better.

 

[Vinyl Valet]

I've owned both Avantgarde Duos and ATC SCM100ASLT speakers in the same room. The Duos were powered by either very good SET monos or very good conventional tube power amps and other top notch, expensive components upstream like a Walker Proscenium Gold turntable (over $100k today). The ATCs, with much more modest components upstream, absolutely crush any Avantgarde speaker I've ever heard at any price. Since I was an Avantgarde dealer, I have plenty of experience with this speaker line. I wouldn't touch them today as a dealer since they have become grossly overpriced and there are far better offerings at much less cost.

 

[Genkifd]

Hulgich dukes are ok speakers for the money but atc 100 are miles better.

each to their own. to me Dukes are better. more Neutral to my ears

 

[Addicted to hifi]

each to their own. to me Dukes are better. more Neutral to my ears

As long as your happy that is all that matters.

 

[Addicted to hifi]

I've owned both Avantgarde Duos and ATC SCM100ASLT speakers in the same room. The Duos were powered by either very good SET monos or very good conventional tube power amps and other top notch, expensive components upstream like a Walker Proscenium Gold turntable (over $100k today). The ATCs, with much more modest components upstream, absolutely crush any Avantgarde speaker I've ever heard at any price. Since I was an Avantgarde dealer, I have plenty of experience with this speaker line. I wouldn't touch them today as a dealer since they have become grossly overpriced and there are far better offerings at much less cost.

Two very different sounds.

 

[Addicted to hifi]

osborn speakers are highly regarded in Australia and well as Hulgich. Dukes actually won Sterenet international hifi show award 2018.

What amplifier are you using?

 

[Genkifd]

Audio GD as synergy is key as many owner's of Dukes also run with