Aries Cerat DACs vs. other brands

[morricab]

A

I’ve compared my aging Lampi GG2 to Helene in my room. Both are R2R dacs (my Lampi has Soekris R2R). But I do not think it matters, as Ron said, implementation is the key. Initially, I was very much impressed with the tone and smoothness of the Helene’s presentation, especially compared to my super-dynamic Lampi with 242 tubes. However, after switching back to Lampi, I was surprised that I could hear more on both ends of the spectrum. I invited another audiophile, and we both heard the same: better dynamics, more base and more air in HF with Lampi vs Helene. I know other people, who moved from Lampi to Aries Cerat, so maybe it’s my taste or my room or both. Anyway, Helene is a very good dac that has very smooth and non-fatiguing presentation, very analog one. But some people like myself are used to a more modern presentation and may prefer other dacs.

Any rolling of the Helene rectifier tube? If not then you probably didn’t hear the DAC at its best. Just like the Lampizator, if you don’t roll the tubes you are not extracting the full potential. If you used stock GG2 tubes, would it be competitive to your maxed out GG2? With Incito preamp, which is basically the output stage of Helene, I made profound improvements rolling the rectifier.

 

[LL21]

Hi Opabin,
I too find the R2R DAC architecture more natural to listen to than sigma/delta or software implementations.

However, I have so far not been that enamored with the discrete resistor implementations with the exception of TotalDAC. Personally, I think the best digital sound comes from 2 things: 1) a very good R2R chip (either with over sampling (not upsampling) or non-oversampling) 2) IV conversion that is passive or with discrete transistor 3) tube or discrete class A transistor output stage and 4) massive robust powersupply.

There are some exceptions to that but they are few and far between...for me.

The first discrete R2R implementation as far as I am aware was by Accuphase in the early 90s. They then moved to using the BB PCM63K 20 bit chip (one of the absolute best) and in their top DACs like the DC-91 used multiple chips, like Aries Cerat does today (Accuphase called it MMB or multi-multibit). This lowers the noise floor and ups the dynamics considerably.

I don't think it is possible to get a discrete DAC to the level of precision of a laser trimmed chip like a BB PCM1704, which was the best measuring of all the IC based DAC chips from the 80s and 90s. Probably the most loved ones though are the AD1865N, which is used by Aries Cerat and Audio Note among others, the Philips TD-1541 and the BB PCM63K. IMO, these will all outperform a discrete DAC if implemented in ways described above.

As to Sigma/Delta. The Lampizator implementations are very good and arguably more "airy" and resolved; however, that doesn't necessarily make them sound more "real". Recent DACs that use top AKM chips are also very very good, like from Metronome and Ayon.

That said, I still strongly prefer a good R2R DAC implementation using IC chips. A friend of mine recently brought over an Abbas DAC that uses the old Philips TD-1541 16bit chip. This sounded wonderful...plenty of resolution and lovely tone and huge dynamics. The Aries Cerat DACs sound soemwhat more neutral than this but you still know it is a tube R2R DAC and the dynamics and soundstage are huge. More detailed and resolved than the Abbas DAC as well. The AC DACs have a very "grounded" sound where there is this sensation of an ultra stable foundation upon which the music is built and organized...it all makes sense together. It is not as "airy" and extended as a Lampizator DAC and some people prefer that.

Fascinating to hear about digital views given how many years have passed. Thanks for that. We own the 4-box Zanden which is TDA 1541 double-crown, but with (at the time) obsessive attention to power supply, output, i2s connections, lowering vibration, EMI/RFI...and we have since added the Waversa INT REF Ext inbetween which has really changed the game on lower noise and detail of the original.

That said, Audiocrack also still owns his Zanden...but has clearly moved to the 300K+ Waversa digital..so a little leap in price forward!

I am most curious about latest generation of digital, but not really thinking about it, given that it sounds very natural and balanced.

 

[abeidrov]

A

Any rolling of the Helene rectifier tube? If not then you probably didn’t hear the DAC at its best. Just like the Lampizator, if you don’t roll the tubes you are not extracting the full potential. If you used stock GG2 tubes, would it be competitive to your maxed out GG2? With Incito preamp, which is basically the output stage of Helene, I made profound improvements rolling the rectifier.

You may be right. If I had switched from 242 to 300B in the Lampi, it is quite possible I would have preferred Helene dac to Lampi.

 

[Argonaut]

You may be right. If I had switched from 242 to 300B in the Lampi, it is quite possible I would have preferred Helene dac to Lampi.

I suspect that many folks would be very happy with either of these fine DAC’s especially given the price point of some DAC’s in the current market.

 

[morricab]

You may be right. If I had switched from 242 to 300B in the Lampi, it is quite possible I would have preferred Helene dac to Lampi.

I went from a decent NOS GZ34 to a holy grail metal base one and the leap in dynamics and transparency was frankly very surprising.