Are Plasma TV's A Thing Of The Past

DaveyF

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2010
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La Jolla, Calif USA
Let me first explain how the technologies work and then get into that :).

A normal LCD is just a light shutter. The shutter is a filter of light and based on electrical signal can be told to filter a bit or a lot. It does this by changing the orientation of a polarization field which when at 90 degrees blocks light and when at 0, does not. The light source is constant in the form of the "back light." The back light is either fluorescent or LED. The latter sets ore incorrectly called LED TVs. The right name would be LED backlit LCD as the structure of the TV has not changed. Only the constant light source.

Because the picture is created using a front filter, some amount of light can still leak through because the backlight is still on and no filter is perfect. A partial solution is to dim the backlight. This is the so called "local dimming" solution. The challenge here is that a 1080p set has 2 million pixels. So for this to work, you would need to have 2 million sources of light which is very impractical. Current sets have something like 32 to 256 regions which approximates the same but can still lead to such artifacts as halos as white pixel with dark background can have a glow due to backlight region being much larger than the individual pixel. There are good and bad schemes here but ultimately they all have similar problems.

LCDs are also directional due to use of the polarization filter as just explained.


Plasmas devices likewise have issues in that they require a residual charge to make them work. This residual charge causes them to not be able to fully display black as black. Pioneer's claim to fame was to tame this problem in successive generations of their displays. The process was taught to be too expensive to manufacture in volume and hence the reason they pulled out when they noticed the costs were spiraling down for competing solutions (and the company was having substantial financial problems at the time being much smaller than other Japanese companies).

OLED is an entirely different animal. It is actually a light emitting device. This means that if you tell it to display black, i.e. nothing, it does exactly that. It shuts off the drive to the pixel and it will go black -- just like what happened with the CRT sets of the past. The problem with it is that it can't produce as much light as a normal LCD display which can essentially have arbitrary amount of light behind it. The other problem has been yield. The former appears to have been solved by LG for example by inserting a white element in there. Cheap projectors deploy this technique to get brightness but this usually comes in the form of compromised black levels and colors. Yield issues could come in the form of bad pixels which have to be manually repaired in the factory. The first generation 1080p LCD sets were enabled this way which made them very expensive. The other issue which I worry about is color and brightness uniformity. With every pixel being a light source, if there are process variations, we could get differing performance in each. OLEDs are heavily used in today's smartphones and they do have such problems but since the application is not critical, folks don't complain.

In a show situation as in CES demos, material can be carefully picked to avoid performance issues and of course yield is not a consideration as you can make enough to get what you need to show.

So personally I won't believe OLEDs are here until they actually show up, have ample supply, are priced reasonably, and have good performance. Yes, on measured contrast they should match or beat the Kuro. But the rest of the issues matter.

As you may know, Sharp licensed the trademark Elite from Pioneer and brought out a set of LCD TVs with very good performance. They are priced much higher though and from what I hear, sales are pretty slow. So longer term I am not sure they will continue selling them.


Thanks, Amir that was VERY informative.

It's true that the OLED hasn't seemed to be getting too much press since the last CES , I was wondering why:confused:.
 

karma

New Member
Jun 17, 2011
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White Rock, New Mexico
HI All,
Just before Christmas I bought a new Panasonic TC-P55VT50 55 inch plasma and placed it in my HT room. I moved my 44 inch Hitachi plasma from my bedroom HT room to my music room where it is keeping my hi fi system company. The only reason I switched TV's was because I wanted the 55 inch screen. The Hitachi is good. I switched because of size. The Panasonic's blacks are much better, though.

Some serious shopping showed me that the Panasonic PQ was better than the LCD's I demoed. This is truly a beautiful TV. And, it is 3D capable. But, I did not choose this TV because of 3D. After all, all new upper end TV's can do 3D. I had exactly zero 3D content so I was a beginner to the technology. All I will say about 3D is it works well and I'm in the process to accumulating a few 3D Blue-Rays. Avatar in 3D is spectacular as is Titanic. I expect to obtain more 3D disks. I really don't understand all the objections to the glasses.

Heat is definitely present. Just how much is hard to determine because there are vents all over the rear of the set. My initial opinion is it is no worse than my Hitachi but I could change my mind as summer comes on. I never found the Hitachi power consumption to be a problem.

Steve, I must ask if your strong comments about power consumption is a practical issue of heat or a theoretical "Green" issue. I ask because I don't understand your strong feelings. As far as power costs are concerned, my hi fi system power costs exceed my plasma TV's by orders of magnitudes. I have 50 tubes in my main music system, twenty of which are 6550's!! :eek:

I considered OLED technology but it seems that it is still in the future at a price I can afford. I have never seen a demo of OLED but it sure sounds promising.

BTW, after I got my new TV, and with the Hitachi moved to a different room, I decided that I wanted another programmable remote control, one for each TV (and associated system). Yes, you can say it: I'm lazy! My current remote is a Phillips Pronto which I have programmed for 10 devices. In case you don't know, this is a great remote. So I went WEB shopping and found that Phillips has discontinued the Pronto. This is a terrible loss. While I probably could have bought another brand remote, I didn't want to. I'm very attached to the Pronto. Further, I could share the program from my original to the new Pronto. The program is stored in my laptop. It's just a matter of downloading. I solved the problem by buying a used Pronto that is the same model as my original. I did the download and I had two Pronto's, each of which can be used with either system. Still, the loss of the Pronto from the market is very sad. I assume Phillips discontinued the Pronto because at $800 it was too expensive. But, its worth every penny.

All in all, my new Panasonic is the best TV I have seen. I love it.

Sparky
 
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NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
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karma

New Member
Jun 17, 2011
320
1
0
82
White Rock, New Mexico
HI Bob,
The model number of my Pronto remotes is the TSU7500/17. In it's lack, I wonder what other folks are using for a TOTL remote.

Your statement "as in now" is so true. The TV business and technologies seems very dynamic. What's great now probably won't be a year from now.

Sparky
 

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
24,305
1,323
435
Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
-- What does TOTL stand for?

The Universal remote control that I'm using right now is the Harmony 550. ..Paid only fifty bucks for it (new).

BTW, Logitech has now decided to 'remove' the Harmony remote controls from their company distribution selling products.

* I never had the Philips Pronto TSU7500/17, so I cannot say much.
Are you looking for another/better remote control Sparky?
 

karma

New Member
Jun 17, 2011
320
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82
White Rock, New Mexico
HI Bob,
Sorry. TOTL is short for Top Of The Line. I hate it when people assume I know more than I do. I now I did it to you. I apologize.

Check out the attached image. The top two images are the same as mine. The screen buttons are totally soft and, in fact, are created freely when you develop your program on the computer. There are a number of hard buttons as well around the outside of the central screen. These are completely assignable but are normally used for standard functions such as volume, mute and channel. But they can be anything you want. The LCD screen starts totally blank. All features are created by the programmer. Programming is done on a computer where all the graphics are developed and functions assigned to the buttons, both soft and hard. When finished, after testing on the computer, the program is downloaded to the remote via a USB port. The display is a touch screen. The base the remote is sitting on is both a base and the battery charger. So one is free to remove the remote from the base if it is wished. It is possible to program complex macro commands where a complex string of commands are executed at the touch of a button. It's very elegant.

No, I'm not looking for another remote. My two Pronto's easily take care of my needs. I feel I have best remote there is except other, more expensive, Pronto's. The Pronto is taking the place of 15 remotes if I count both the Panasonic, Hitachi, and my Home Theater associated systems. It even controls my Sirius Sat radio. All in one remote. The reason I was so upset when I found the Pronto was discontinued is because I felt it is the best. It's not easy, or cheap, to replace the best. Our world is poorer.

Region Capture.jpg

Sparky
 
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NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
24,305
1,323
435
Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
-- "Top-of-the-line", thanks. :b

And there wasn't any need to apologize just for that.

___________

I wonder how long till they stop making plasmas? ...Eventually I guess.
 

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