Apple iPhone 5 vs Samsung G/S4

[amirm]

Being closed and not offering every possible flavor are two different things. Buick isn't closed but doesn't offer a sports car either.

And how much fun would it be to only buy Buick? 'cause that is what you guys are doing and say others should join you .

Actually we know each September or so there will be a new phone. And that last years new model will be discounted. It's been very regular and you know what your choices will be minus new features on the new phone which nobody divulges officially beforehand.

I hope you guys one day objective look at these arguments. What you just said is that you worship the god who bring you gifts once a year. What decision can you base on that once a year gift from heaven? How do you know if it is a 4s or a 5? How can you be content with Apple deciding if you should or should not have a larger screen? I love my wireless charging. I bet you would too if you could try it. What if Apple doesn't provide it? It is OK because you can wait until next September???

Apple doesn't say anything about new products because it is good for them to keep their competitors in the dark. That is not pro-consumer. It is pro-Apple.

The decision to wait or not with tech always has to do with personal timing. Need a new phone, should I get the S3 or wait a couple of months for the S4, whatever it may be? There's always something at the end of the rainbow with tech.

When you have more than one manufacturer, their cadence is out of sync and you have new stuff every few months. And Android companies tend to pre-announce their stuff so you can have better view of what is coming. My HTC phone for example was launched in Japan and I knew about it that way and waited a couple of months and it came here. With Apple that never happens.

Not licensing iOS yields the seamlessness, ease and consistency of interface (how many versions of Android are being actively used now and how many customs skins?) many value highly.

It takes me five minutes to learn the new "skin." What I do all the time never changes. Find apps. Run apps. Make phone calls. Done.

Apple has around 85% of all smartphone profits. Their model is entirely different from Google's. They rely on hardware for profits, so yeah, they're not going to give that away but again, I (and many ) find the products their model spawns to be best in the utility and experiences I care about. And again, can somebody tell me what this model closes me out of?

It closes you out of what I have. I bought a phone with better features than any iPhone. It allowed my family members to get different models to suit their needs as I mentioned. Hundreds of millions of Android phones have shipped to people in all levels of live and skill level. The notion that folks in this forum would find something hard about Android just doesn't resonate with me.

Say that you love the look, you love the company and everything else is secondary and I buy that. Beyond that what used to be the differentiation is essentially gone. There is a reason Apple is suing Samsung. They know the edge is gone. The brand and customer loyalty as we are witnessing here is a strong asset for them to be sure. But again, that is what is good for Apple. Not what is good for consumers.

I guess the larger argument is that an amazing thing has happened. Google has developed something that shouldn't have been possible: matching Apple in what they had a significant lead in. And getting the apps. It is hard to imagine that this was done but it has. For this to have happened, the product had to work. Had to be good. Had to create appeal. The virtues you all talk about has to, by definition, also has to be true of Android or there would be no way they could come from behind and catch up to Apple. No amount of saying Android is not good will not pass this existence test. The worst part for Apple is that Google gives away the OS for free. This is Microsoft competing with them times 100. Microsoft charged for Windows. Apple does not. They want the default search advantage which they are getting.

The marketplace has voted and has said that Android is every bit as good, capable, etc. as iOS when it comes to phones. We can argue about a lot but can't argue about that .

 

[RBFC]

One thing is for sure, if there is a debate to be had (regardless of merit or necessity), there will be folks to engage in that debate.

Lee

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

1)OK, solve this problem Tim: I want a larger display than the iPhone 5. You can't, right? That is part of being closed. Not licensing the OS itself to others means that 2) if you want a better phone, you need to sit there praying and dreaming of the next one. Apple being apple, won't give you any clues to plan your life. I can't tell you how many times someone asked me if they should get the current iPhone or wait for the next one. With Android, you don't have that worry. At any time, you have a choice of 2-3 excellent phones if not more.

Even if I were to go by your argument, 3) anyone savvy enough to go and hunt around for stuff to unlock the restrictions in their iPhone, should have no problem whatsoever navigating Android! You can't say Android is hard and then say you jump through these hoops to get around Apple locks.

1) Buy an Android. Or if you want a larger screen to work within an Apple system you've built in your house, buy an iPad mini. Or an iPad. By this logic of yours anything is closed that doesn't offer every option imaginable. What if I'm an Android user who wants an iPad Mini-sized screen? Then that's a closed system. I understand the hardware proliferation advantages of an OS licensed to anyone who wants to develop a device or a piece of software. I also understand the integration advantages of the integrated approach.

2) If I were a hardware lover, and things like bigger screens equaled "better phone" to me, again, I'd buy an Android. As it is I'm not even waiting for the latest iPhone, much less the next one. My 4S does everything I want it to do, and as a part of my network of hardware and software, that is substantially more than most people ever get around to doing with their smart phones.

3) I'm not jumping through any hoops. None of it has been difficult to find or use; a bit wonkier than using all Apple stuff, but not nearly as bad as my old Windows experiences. I probably wouldn't have any problems navigating an Android. If an Android offered anything I really wanted, I'd probably buy one and figure out how to make it work with my Apple stuff. I'm not even compelled to upgrade to the iPhone 5. YMMV.

Yeah, I could navigate an Android, but millions of people don't want to navigate anything. They want to buy a phone, maybe a tablet and a wireless audio/video receiver. They want it to all work together, and with their computer, without spending time figuring out how to make it work together. They are willing to pay a premium for that ease of use and they are not stupid for doing that, they are simply investing their money in operational integration instead of bigger screens and newer hardware features. Some of those people eventually get fairly complex Apple systems running and find that they would like to stream audio other than iTunes from their Airport Extreme to their Airport Express, that they would like to be able to stream video from their Apple computer to their Playstation, that they would like to be able to put their wife's HP on the network.

To listen to the "closed system" argument, you'd believe all that was impossible with an Apple OS. In fact, it took 3 pieces of software and two of them were free. None were hard to find (Google search) one was a bit wonky in installation and set-up, but not too bad. A fourth just wasn't very good software and I removed it from the system. Are you suggesting that at this point, now that I'm savvy enough, I should dump the system and start all over with an Android?

I appreciate your confidence, but I'll pass.

Tim

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

One thing is for sure, if there is a debate to be had (regardless of merit or necessity), there will be folks to engage in that debate.

Lee

The merit and reason here is pretty clear to me, Lee -- the hardware-centric side of this old debate doesn't seem to understand why there is another side at all, and continue to push an argument (the closed system) against the one system of products that is fully-integrated and, by design appears to be hardware-limited. It is a false argument. Sometimes these false arguments just get repeated until they appear to be true; they need to be put in perspective.

And one hardware-centric individual (he's only alone in this thread, unfortunately) has taken it to the extreme; he has repeatedly said anyone who doesn't agree with his false argument is stupid. I'll grant you that really doesn't deserve a response at all. He deserves to have his ass kicked off the forum for openly and repeatedly insulting about half the community in this thread and every other one that has stirred is illogical hatred of inanimate objects of a specific brand, but with that not forthcoming, dismantling his illogic is the only alternative.

Tim

 

[mep]

I was never about making an argument that the iPhone is the best phone on the market. I just didn't appreciate being called an idiot because I own one.

 

[Steve Williams]

Tim

I'm with you 100% and like you I have a 4S and have everything I want so unless the 5S is revolutionary rather than evolutionary I might be stimulated to buy one. If not, I like you remain happy with my 4S and would wait then to see the iPhone 6. For me it is no big deal

You guys that get your panties in a wad because you tell me I must have a larger screen then what Tim says is what I would do as well.....buy an ipad mini

Have you ever watched a woman get an S4 out of her purse or a guy take one out of his back pocket. The woman must use a much larger purse and the guy looks like he's taking an ipad mini out of his back pocket. Just the way I see it at least

Having said that, Amir's point that Apple has lost its edge I believe to be spot on. There are typically 2 models released per year such as 3, 3S, 4, 4S, 5 and likely the 5s so I could care less if all the android companies release a new model every few months. Geez, how often do you really need a new phone?

Amir, as a retired Microsoft exec and PC proponent why the heck don't you use a Windows phone

As far a our one member who likes to call we Apple users idiots, I find it very interesting that such things can strike a nerve and bring out the worst in him. It serves no purpose to use ad hominen attacks and this attacked not one member here but many. My only question to Keith is "with your wife using an Iphone 5, is she really an idiot?

 

[ack]

OK let's all lighten up... so here's a joke... Q: How many cooks does it take to fry the iPhone and all its users... A: No smart cook would ever do that

 

[Steve Williams]

this topic provokes more heated arguments than anything SS vs tubes etc. I am amazed how this topic can bring out the worst in people

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

It's what happens when you throw gasoline on a fire. I know I wouldn't do that, but then I wouldn't call people stupid either.

 

[ack]

this topic provokes more heated arguments than anything SS vs tubes etc. I am amazed how this topic can bring out the worst in people

Men arguing about the size of their... wares... unusual With SS and tubes we have settled it; solid state devices are much smaller than tubes, so real men buy more of it - Krell.

 

[Keith_W]

My only question to Keith is "with your wife using an Iphone 5, is she really an idiot?

That's what I said to her when she bought one. I pointed out that her iP4 already struggles to last a day given her usage patterns. The iP5 has the same sized battery, but it also has a larger screen, more powerful CPU, and LTE. All these things gobble up battery. Result: her phone is flat by midday and she had to buy an overpriced lightning connector for her car and office. Nevertheless it's nice to have an iP5 at home so that I can keep an eye on how far behind Apple is

 

[JackD201]

So what did you cook for dinner the day you called her that? Must have been good!

 

[mep]

So what did you cook for dinner the day you called her that? Must have been good!

Humble Pie would have been a good choice, but I doubt that would ever happen.

 

[Steve Williams]

Humble Pie would have been a good choice, but I doubt that would ever happen.

now that's witty Mark

 

[amirm]

Yeah, I could navigate an Android, but millions of people don't want to navigate anything. They want to buy a phone, maybe a tablet and a wireless audio/video receiver.
Tim

It seems you are using arguments that were valid a few years ago Tim. Time has changed. As I keep saying, people from all walks of life are more than able to navigate Android or we would not have such staggering stats for its success from Google CEO:

"Eric Schmidt, the chairman of Google, revealed at the AllThingsD conference that Android platform is currently supported by 320 operators in 160 countries, There are 1.5 million activations of Android devices every single day and there are 700 thousand apps in the Play Store. ... “We will cross a billion towards the end of this year. That gives you a sense of the reach. Android is the primary vehicle of smartphones – we will quickly get to the $100 price point, which is the key for those next five billion people looking to get connected,” said Mr. Schmidt."

1.5 million people *per day* are able to navigate the troubled waters of Android. How can anything hard, unintuitive, unintegrated have this kind of adoption where consumers have ready access to another super popular and available device called an iPhone next to it? Answer is simple: Android has matured. It comes in attractive packages. It has rich set of applications. It is marketed by more companies because the lack of restrictions Apple puts on it. And it comes in more price points.

Really, we need to move beyond the old talking points of yesteryear. The reality today is that Apple has a huge installed based that drives its adoption, in many cases with the person not even giving Android a look. The "switching cost" is high for people to move away from Apple as you correctly say with regards to list of Apple devices you have connected together and simple familiarity. Apple of course also builds excellent hardware that is well beyond good enough for its loyal customers. And there is a pride in ownership that comes with it that is probably missing in Android land.

This thread though is not about that. It is about someone not committed to Apple and wants to know which way to go. In that regard, almost none of the above advantages hold. The message here and now is that Android is a formidable competitor to Apple. It is a superb platform as much as iPhone was a few years ago relative to alternatives. It is incredibly easy to use for the things people do: make phone calls, take pictures, find and run an app, etc. For a person who is not married to either platform, it is absolutely a given that Android should be as high if not higher on the list than Apple due to sheer number of choices available as far as hardware.

Two-three years ago I would have said that Apple had a major lead here. It would have been hard for me to put Android on equal footing to iOS. But today? It is a very, very different world. My HTC phone puts a smile on face many times when I use it. I couldn't say that about Android phones before that. Let's modernize our thinking here and give good advice to people who want to pick a direction to go.

 

[rblnr]

1) Buy an Android. Or if you want a larger screen to work within an Apple system you've built in your house, buy an iPad mini. Or an iPad. By this logic of yours anything is closed that doesn't offer every option imaginable. What if I'm an Android user who wants an iPad Mini-sized screen? Then that's a closed system. I understand the hardware proliferation advantages of an OS licensed to anyone who wants to develop a device or a piece of software. I also understand the integration advantages of the integrated approach.

2) If I were a hardware lover, and things like bigger screens equaled "better phone" to me, again, I'd buy an Android. As it is I'm not even waiting for the latest iPhone, much less the next one. My 4S does everything I want it to do, and as a part of my network of hardware and software, that is substantially more than most people ever get around to doing with their smart phones.

3) I'm not jumping through any hoops. None of it has been difficult to find or use; a bit wonkier than using all Apple stuff, but not nearly as bad as my old Windows experiences. I probably wouldn't have any problems navigating an Android. If an Android offered anything I really wanted, I'd probably buy one and figure out how to make it work with my Apple stuff. I'm not even compelled to upgrade to the iPhone 5. YMMV.

Yeah, I could navigate an Android, but millions of people don't want to navigate anything. They want to buy a phone, maybe a tablet and a wireless audio/video receiver. They want it to all work together, and with their computer, without spending time figuring out how to make it work together. They are willing to pay a premium for that ease of use and they are not stupid for doing that, they are simply investing their money in operational integration instead of bigger screens and newer hardware features. Some of those people eventually get fairly complex Apple systems running and find that they would like to stream audio other than iTunes from their Airport Extreme to their Airport Express, that they would like to be able to stream video from their Apple computer to their Playstation, that they would like to be able to put their wife's HP on the network.

To listen to the "closed system" argument, you'd believe all that was impossible with an Apple OS. In fact, it took 3 pieces of software and two of them were free. None were hard to find (Google search) one was a bit wonky in installation and set-up, but not too bad. A fourth just wasn't very good software and I removed it from the system. Are you suggesting that at this point, now that I'm savvy enough, I should dump the system and start all over with an Android?

I appreciate your confidence, but I'll pass.

Tim

Agreed on all counts. It comes down to priorities, and 'not having to navigate' is very high on my list. It's why I've often wanted to chuck my PC against the wall.

Don't want a bigger screen/bigger phone as another example, and I'm obviously over a hundred million people away from alone on that. I pocket my phone and as noted above, there are other devices with bigger screens. That said, like the iPod and iPad, I wouldn't be surprised to see some size choices in the future.

Is Samsung closed if I want a color accurate screen

Bottom line is that the 'choices' made in the name of simplicity make sense to me, and as the quotation marks suggest, I don't find them to be choices or tradeoffs, in fact, I find them to be quite pro-consumer. I could argue that Android is basically pro-advertisement.

 

[audioguy]

Agreed on all counts. It comes down to priorities, and 'not having to navigate' is very high on my list. It's why I've often wanted to chuck my PC against the wall.

Wish you wouldn't use that expression!

On a more serious note (or maybe not), and I admit I am as prejudiced about this as Amir is about Microsoft, but no matter what version of Windows I use (have not used 8) it still FEELS like an OS built on top of DOS. I know that is not the case but it still feels that way. But that's just me!!!

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

It seems you are using arguments that were valid a few years ago Tim. Time has changed. As I keep saying, people from all walks of life are more than able to navigate Android or we would not have such staggering stats for its success from Google CEO:

"Eric Schmidt, the chairman of Google, revealed at the AllThingsD conference that Android platform is currently supported by 320 operators in 160 countries, There are 1.5 million activations of Android devices every single day and there are 700 thousand apps in the Play Store. ... “We will cross a billion towards the end of this year. That gives you a sense of the reach. Android is the primary vehicle of smartphones – we will quickly get to the $100 price point, which is the key for those next five billion people looking to get connected,” said Mr. Schmidt."

1.5 million people *per day* are able to navigate the troubled waters of Android. How can anything hard, unintuitive, unintegrated have this kind of adoption where consumers have ready access to another super popular and available device called an iPhone next to it? Answer is simple: Android has matured. It comes in attractive packages. It has rich set of applications. It is marketed by more companies because the lack of restrictions Apple puts on it. And it comes in more price points.

Really, we need to move beyond the old talking points of yesteryear. The reality today is that Apple has a huge installed based that drives its adoption, in many cases with the person not even giving Android a look. The "switching cost" is high for people to move away from Apple as you correctly say with regards to list of Apple devices you have connected together and simple familiarity. Apple of course also builds excellent hardware that is well beyond good enough for its loyal customers. And there is a pride in ownership that comes with it that is probably missing in Android land.

This thread though is not about that. It is about someone not committed to Apple and wants to know which way to go. In that regard, almost none of the above advantages hold. The message here and now is that Android is a formidable competitor to Apple. It is a superb platform as much as iPhone was a few years ago relative to alternatives. It is incredibly easy to use for the things people do: make phone calls, take pictures, find and run an app, etc. For a person who is not married to either platform, it is absolutely a given that Android should be as high if not higher on the list than Apple due to sheer number of choices available as far as hardware.

Two-three years ago I would have said that Apple had a major lead here. It would have been hard for me to put Android on equal footing to iOS. But today? It is a very, very different world. My HTC phone puts a smile on face many times when I use it. I couldn't say that about Android phones before that. Let's modernize our thinking here and give good advice to people who want to pick a direction to go.

Can't find anything to disagree with there, Amir. But I can't find anything about an Android that I really have to have either. If I could, I might buy one, confident that with a bit of wrangling and software, I could get it to do everything my iPhone does in my Apple home network. But you misunderstood my talking points. I didn't mean to say that the Android is an inherently inferior platform, just that it is by definition going to take more work to integrate into an Apple network of products than an iPhone. Even more important than that, I meant to say that Apple's "closed system" is a myth, and that Keith's behavior is ignorant and inappropriate. The later is self-evident. The former you can believe or not, but I know the Apple system is easily opened from direct personal experience. I've done it. The anti-Apple crowd is going to have a hard time convincing me it can't be done.

The next challenge might be integrating an Android into Apple's un-closed system. Can you give me a good reason why I should bother? Anything really cool that it can do that an iPhone cannot? It's going to have to be very cool, though, and not about screen size, because personally, I think an iPhone is about as big as a phone should be and it's all screen.

Tim

 

[DaveyF]

Agreed on all counts. It comes down to priorities, and 'not having to navigate' is very high on my list. It's why I've often wanted to chuck my PC against the wall.

.

That's pretty much how I felt after my dear little PC froze up from being infected. As far as I'm concerned, PC is nothing but junk compared to Mac. I seriously doubt anyone would continue to buy PC
if the price difference wasn't a factor. BTW, i use Windows 8 and it's kind of a joke. Who needs touch screen on a laptop or desktop, I know I sure don't.