Anyone familiar with the 2007 Verite La Joie?

ack

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This was rated at 100 by Robert Parker, and I came across it yesterday. Anyone familiar with it? 2007 is one of the best years ever for CA wine, but is this Verite up to the best Bordeaux blends that it's trying to mimic? More importantly - is this really a perfect wine?
 

rsbeck

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Apr 20, 2010
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We know one thing; it is for Robert Parker. If you agree with his palate, then it could be for you, too.

One thing to consider, is he saying it is a 100 point wine right this minute or after some aging?

Let's look at his review:

From my perspective, the 2007 La Joie is pure perfection. A Pauillac-like blend of 68% Cabernet Sauvignon, 15% Merlot, 8% Cabernet Franc, and the rest Petit Verdot and Malbec, it possesses a cedary, fruitcake, black currant, tobacco leaf, blackberry, and graphite-scented bouquet. Layers of creme de cassis and blackberry liqueur intermixed with scorched earth, truffle, and toasty characteristics are spectacular as are the multidimensional mouthfeel, fabulous purity, and a 60-second finish. This 2007 will be accessible in 6-8 years, and should drink well for 35-50+ years thereafter. Only those with cold cellars and enormous patience should purchase this modern day legend.


So, he's doing that for which he has made his reputation; he is projecting how the wine will perform once it is aged. His target dates are an educated guess and with a 100 point wine, he will generally revisit it, let you know how it is progressing and refine his score and estimate to maturity. Wines built to age generally need concentration and tannin and are often not very pleasurable to drink when young.

Here are some reviews from amateur wine enthusiasts who've tried it already....

http://www.cellartracker.com/list.asp?Table=Notes&szSearch=2007+Verite+La+Joie

Here are the retail prices for the wine...

http://www.wine-searcher.com/find/verite+joie/2007

It will set you back somewhere between $300 to $450 and then you can put it in your cellar, wait and see how it turns out.

Or, you might want to try an older vintage.

The 2002 rated 98 points and this review....

The full-bodied, classically-styled, Bordeaux-like 2002 La Joie’s (64.2% Cabernet Sauvignon, 28.5% Merlot, 7% Cabernet Franc, and .3% Malbec) deep ruby/purple color is followed by gorgeous aromas of black truffles, scorched earth, tobacco leaves, blackberry and cassis liqueur, and notions of minerals as well as acacia flowers. This stunning red can be drunk in 2-3 years, or cellared for two decades. Drink: 2007 - 2025.

Here's a group of reviews from amateur wine enthusiasts....

http://www.cellartracker.com/list.asp?Table=Notes&szSearch=2002+verite+joie

And you can get this bottle for around $125, try it right now and it might give you an idea of how this wine ages.

http://www.wine-searcher.com/find/verite+joie/2002
 

rsbeck

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Personally, if you're looking for a wine that you can enjoy in the near future, for your $125, believe I could help direct you to a wine that will give you a lot more sure-fire pleasure.
 

ack

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Fire away. I can get a Joe Phelps Insignia for $150 or less. The information you provide in this forum is invaluable to me. Thanks!
 

ack

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BTW, my research - like yours - show Verite prices all over the map; and in fact, on 90pluswines.com it appears they drop over time (for the same wine). That would indicate to me Verite is just overpriced.
 
Last edited:

rsbeck

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I'm a big fan of Phelps Insignia.

In my opinion, it helps to know why one is buying a particular wine, how it is valued in the marketplace and perhaps most importantly, why.

There is a breed of collector called a "trophy hunter."

These guys, almost 100% guys, don't just want a great wine, they also want one that is scarce, impossible to find and outside of the usual budget.

These guys are the target market for the Screaming Eagles of the world.

They only become interested in wine such as these because they are extremely highly rated by Parker, which ensures they will be highly coveted and priced accordingly.

So, they only get excited about wines that are produced in miniscule quantities, which ensures that they will be extremely scarce and that they will stand a very good chance of being one of the few who owns a bottle or two. These guys don't just want to drink great wine, they also want their wine to kick your wine's ass when they are lined up to see whose is longest.

They lose interest in a wine that is produced in quantities over 1,000 cases per year and more than 2,000 is a royal snooze to them.

The funny thing is that many of these trophy or "cult" wines are very new and have little track record for aging.

Some of them are truly great wines.

However, there are other wines, California Cabs and blends like Phelps Insignia, Chateau Montelena, Beringer Private Reserve, Peter Michael Les Pavots, Pahlmeyer Proprietary Blend, Robert Mondavi Reserve, Anderson's Conn Valley Eloge and Cabernet Reserve, Beaulieu Private Reserve, Phillip Togni, Caymus Special Selection -----

These are great wines when they get it right -- and they often do in the best vintages.

They are also highly rated by critics, but also by wine enthusiasts.

They have established a track record for producing wine that ages positively over somewhat lengthy periods 20+ years.

The catch?

These wines are made in greater quantities.

Most of the ones mentioned above are made in quantities of 7,000+ cases per year.

Even Caymus Special Selection, which makes around 2,000 cases per year is too many for the trophy guys.

So, this is a huge turn off to the trophy collectors, but a boon to someone who wants to drink great wine and can either cellar it for awhile or buy back vintages on the secondary market after someone else has aged it in their cellar.

Here's the review for 1997 Phelps Insignia -- rated 96 points by Parker

Joseph Phelps' flagship wine is their fabulous Insignia, a wine with a tremendous track record back to the debut vintage of 1974. It is produced in significant quantities (18,000-20,000 cases) for a wine of such quality.

The prodigious 1997 Insignia (83% Cabernet Sauvignon, 14% Merlot, and 3% Petit-Verdot) lives up to its pre-bottling promise. Tasted on three separate occasions, every bottle has hit the bull's eye. The color is a saturated thick-looking blue/purple. The nose offers up explosive aromas of jammy black fruits, licorice, Asian spices, vanillin, and cedar. Full-bodied as well as exceptionally pure and impressively endowed, this blockbuster yet surprisingly elegant wine cuts a brilliant swath across the palate. A seamless effort with beautifully integrated acidity, sweet tannin, and alcohol, it is still an infant, but can be drunk with considerable pleasure. Anticipated maturity: 2000-2025.

Here are some amateur reviews ---

http://www.cellartracker.com/list.asp?Table=Notes&szSearch=1997+insignia

You can get this wine for around $150 per bottle.

http://www.wine-searcher.com/find/joseph+phelps+insignia/1997

It is ready to drink today, but I would let it sit in a cool place for a week or two after shipping.

Also, when reading Cellar Tracker, you do have to read some of these reviews with a critical eye.

For example, not to pick on Zinlady, but look at this one....

"Had blind with a roasted vegetable meal. The wine was fantastic from the first sip, dark , balanced, great body, and very long finish." 94 points

94 points is a respectable score, but -- come on -- Cabernet Sauvignon "had blind" with a "roasted vegetable meal"?

This sounds more like a nightmare to me. First, the roasted vegetables are a horrible pairing that can only serve to blunt and fight with the best qualities of the wine and why are you serving the wine blind? Are you trying to have an elegant meal with complementary flavors or are you setting up a test? A competition? What?

Take the blindfold off, save your competing wines for another day and another meal where you can feature them properly on their own, giving yourself and your guests a shot at actually enjoying them. Enjoy the fact that you're drinking an aged Phelps Insignia. The mind also wants to be tantalized. Don't make two similar wines compete. How is that going to bring out the best qualities in each?

You go to the trouble of sourcing a great bottle of Cabernet blend like a 1997 Phelps Insignia, you don't serve it with soup, salad, or roasted vegetables.

You start with a nice crisp white with those courses.

You serve the Insignia with a simply prepared, but beautiful cut of red meat and when you get to that course, you serve the 1997 Insignia that has been breathing while you were enjoying your first courses and your crisp white wine, which will set your palate up perfectly to enjoy the steak and red wine.

My two cents.
 

ack

VIP/Donor & WBF Founding Member
May 6, 2010
6,774
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Boston, MA
However, there are other wines, California Cabs and blends like Phelps Insignia, Chateau Montelena, Beringer Private Reserve, Peter Michael Les Pavots, Pahlmeyer Proprietary Blend, Robert Mondavi Reserve, Anderson's Conn Valley Eloge and Cabernet Reserve, Beaulieu Private Reserve, Phillip Togni, Caymus Special Selection -----

So I have already stocked up on 2007 Insignia and Caymus (OMG - I find the Caymus out of this world; I mean I had to open one up just to try it out; I was expelled off the stratosphere). I've had a number of Beringer Reserves before and they were spectacular. I have to try a 2004 Verite La Joie as well at some point... But the Insignia is truly special; haven't tasted the 1997, but tomorrow is Saturday - hint, hint ;-)

Hey thanks for such insightful information!
 

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