Any point running vinyl on new recordings?

[twitch]

This is very helpful, appreciate your advice here.

I have found in my time with vinyl, that it typically only sounds better (not just different) on older analogue recordings. I was looking to see what people thought. I find running both a digital and vinyl rig at the high end very expensive, so I have all but dropped vinyl, although I am often tempted to pick it back up. I appreciate the labour of love and ceremony from vinyl too. It is however a pain to clean records and setting up a deck takes hours and hours of work.

Thanks all for your perspectives!

your reply speaks volumes, stick with digital .........

 

[Rensselaer]

Though not as experienced as many on here, my 2 cents: I stream digitally recorded or mastered music. And when I can get a good AAA pressing or original or good re-issue of an analog recording, I often prefer the LP.

Specifically, I enjoy 50s/60/70s jazz on vinyl. There just seems to be more bite and presence. For whatever reason, a lot of older jazz stuff, when mastered for digital (CD or streaming), just ends up sounding a bit too neutral or lifeless to me. Un-involving, for lack of a better term.

Exactly. One must ask the question, If listening to NativeDSD through high resolution DACs either from files or streaming always sounds better than the same file converted to analogue the transferred to vinyl, why do it? If digital-to-vinyl recordings always sound "lifeless", why do it? And the final question, why is it those record producers (the majority) who release LPs that were recorded from digital sources never print a warning on those LP covers that they were recorded from digital files and will not satisfy, why is that? Why pretend to be something they will never be?

Other than fone', I know of no other record producers that only records music with just two or three valve-microphones, pushed closer or further to balance, using pure analogue process throughout to the 1/2 inch master tape.

If only current leading musicians would realise what they are loosing out on. If only one or two big names (who don't need their voices processed, or their timing corrected) like Adel, went to fone' (or anyone else recording music in that exact way) and through them cut one great analogue recording on tape or LP, it would save analogue. I suspect those making the money, those with the contracts, will never let it happen.

For the sake of ease and greater profits, record companies and their recording engineers have just about finished putting the death nail in analogue.

 

[Audire]

Any point running vinyl on new recordings?​

Always and Forever

 

[Solypsa]

I stopped paying close attention to mastering studio oriented forums about 8 years ago...so this is an honest question for those that do:

At that time ( lets say pre 2014 ) the vast majority of the serious mastering studios used both analog and digital chains in the process. This means that pretty much all of the digital projects that went through received at least one D-A-D round trip.

Are there any serious and high-end mastering houses that work exclusively in the digital domain these days? I ask because I wonder if anyone here can hear the difference between a digital release thats 'made the analog round trip' vs ones that have not. Seems to me to be a related topic...

 

[Atmasphere]

As stated, those few re-recordings in pure analogue of great recordings of the past often don’t sound as good as the originals (and very expensive as well).

Its important to keep in mind that tape degrades over time. When mastering the LP, there is also a bit of rebound in the grooves. For this reason in the old days it was not uncommon to simply take the master tape directly to the LP mastering lathe in the next room- and from there directly to the plating process. LPs made in this manner tend to sound quite lively! But add 4 decades to the time the tape is in storage and even if stored properly it simply won't have the vivacious quality of the original.

Of course, the original pressings are going to be the most lively as well. For this reason if the recording is really important to me I seek the original rather than a reissue.

Since so many of the LPs today are made from digital source files you don't have the degradation issue- just the concern of whether the LP master was the same as the digital release file (the latter tends to have more DSP). But you still have to deal with the cut being shipped to the pressing plant although if overnite shipping is used this usually isn't a concern.

 

[rando]

For this reason in the old days it was not uncommon to simply take the master tape directly to the LP mastering lathe in the next room- and from there directly to the plating process. LPs made in this manner tend to sound quite lively! But add 4 decades to the time the tape is in storage and even if stored properly it simply won't have the vivacious quality of the original.

I generally distance myself from the art and cheese (wine included) line of thought on audio. Have to ask in this instance where you see the cut off point in rough terms for tape age right now.

 

[Atmasphere]

I generally distance myself from the art and cheese (wine included) line of thought on audio. Have to ask in this instance where you see the cut off point in rough terms for tape age right now.

A year or two at the most. That's how its always been.

That is why digital reissues of older recordings lack the vibrant quality of the original.

 

[dminches]

A year or two at the most. That's how its always been.

That is why digital reissues of older recordings lack the vibrant quality of the original.

If that is the case then why do some AAA reissues sound great? A lot of jazz was recorded on Scotch 111 tape which has held up well over the years.

 

[Atmasphere]

If that is the case then why do some AAA reissues sound great? A lot of jazz was recorded on Scotch 111 tape which has held up well over the years.

Scotch 111 holds up the best of all tape formulations made! But its very fragile.

It makes you wonder how good those recordings sounded when the tape was brand new. Probably even better is my surmise- that's been my experience as well.

 

[Rensselaer]

A year or two at the most. That's how its always been.

That is why digital reissues of older recordings lack the vibrant quality of the original.

When you say digital reissues of older recordings lack the vibrant quality of the original, you of course mean the original digital issue right?

IMHO, "digital reissues" of older "analogue recordings", or newer analogue recordings for that matter, will lack a lot more than "the vibrant quality" of the original recording.

How can collecting a series of "measurements" at different points of an analogue recording, converting that series of "measurements" into an audible state, a "stop action sound photograph" if you will, then playing each sound photograph in chronological order quickly enough to remove audible breaks between such so that it approximates an actual analogue recording of real music, ever be confused with actual analogue recorded music.

 

[Atmasphere]

you of course mean the original digital issue right?

No.

 

[Rensselaer]

No.

think about it

 

[Atmasphere]

think about it

I have. I was not referring to LPs with digital sources- I was really thinking more about older recordings, many of which were recorded and mastered on all-tube equipment, like RCA Living Stereo and the like.

 

[Rensselaer]

I have. I was not referring to LPs with digital sources- I was really thinking more about older recordings, many of which were recorded and mastered on all-tube equipment, like RCA Living Stereo and the like.

Fair enough.

As regards digital, however, I would quote Albert Einstein; “Not everything that counts can be counted and not everything that can be counted counts.”

 

[Atmasphere]

Fair enough.

As regards digital, however, I would quote Albert Einstein; “Not everything that counts can be counted and not everything that can be counted counts.”

I have a fair number of LPs that are recorded with digital sources. Some sound no different than the CDs of the same title. But some sound better- more dynamic contrast, smoother sound, better bass and the like. I suspect these LPs are recorded using a different digital master, one that lacks the usual compression and EQ that is common with CD, since there is no expectation that the LP will be played in a car.

 

[Rensselaer]

I have a fair number of LPs that are recorded with digital sources. Some sound no different than the CDs of the same title. But some sound better- more dynamic contrast, smoother sound, better bass and the like. I suspect these LPs are recorded using a different digital master, one that lacks the usual compression and EQ that is common with CD, since there is no expectation that the LP will be played in a car.

All you need now is the same exact recording directly pressed, sans digital processing, from analogue tape to vinyl, for a comparison.

 

[jespera]

Given the new recording masters are typically all digital, does a turntable make sense for these? I know older records, recorded and mastered in analogue can sound better on vinyl. What’s your view? I listen to almost all newer music.
Thanks Tim

No, there is no point in vinyl sourced from digital. I try to avoid it.

 

[dminches]

No, there is no point in vinyl sourced from digital. I try to avoid it.

What if you vinyl playback sounds much better than your digital? In that case, how can the digital files sound better than the same digitally source LP?

 

[Solypsa]

The logic of avoiding digital-file based vinyl is unassailable, but IMHO there are exceptions.

I've personally cut lacquers from said files and observed outcomes.

Sometimes the transfer is really good although different. Different from the final digital release by virtue of different mastering and also the inevitable different equipment used and lastly the actual lathe work.

For those of us that listen to various modern music ( edm, post rock, etc. ) the vinyl can sometimes be the better choice between what is offered commercially. Not always and I have bought some crap records too.

All in all I disagree with a strict avoidance of all vinyl not sourced from analog tape or direct to disc!