40+ watts SET

[Pani]

Friends,

Hope everyone is well here. I am visiting after a long time. I have a query on behalf of a close buddy of mine. He is using a pair of TAD CR1x loudspeakers. Gorgeous speakers for sure. The source is an EMT 927 TT & JPA66 preamp. For the amplification things are getting tricky. He has tried the TAD M700s reference power amp and while it sounds very controlled, it doesn't have the openness and dimensionality of tone that a good tube/SET amp provides. We are considering trying a good SET for this system. Given that TAD needs some power to blossom well and expand effortlessly, at least 40 watts of SET power would be needed. The quick choices are Kondo Kagura, Audio Note(UK) Gaku-On & Wavac HE833 Mk2. But I need more suggestions :

1. The first concern is, is it okay to pair a TAD CR1x which is an 86db sensitive (and not a very easy load) with an SET? Has anyone tried such a pairing?

2. Has anyone heard the Kondo, AN(UK) and Wavac gears to suggest a comparison? I am just a bit worried on the amount of Silver used in Kondo. I have normally found that silver takes away something from the flow and harmonics. Tell me more about it.

2. What other options can be considered in this realm? No SS please. If there is a terrific tube push-pull amp that I should consider, do suggest


Room size is moderate 17 x 13 feet. Music preferred are classic rock, jazz, pop and some classical.

 

[Basile: Locrian Audio]

Hi Pani - I would like to make 3 recommendations. First, all tube, the Octave from Germany. They have multiple amps at different price levels. The second, is a hybrid, the Ypsilon Electronics Aelius Mono. No need for the Silver Edition, although it is better. The third, I know you said no SS, but this amp is very special: Accuphase A-80. One of the best amps I have ever listened to, 60 glorious watts per channel and relatively inexpensive by high end standards. All three choices are highly recommended for their natural sound, beautiful dynamics, deep and wide sound stage with lots of "air" between the instruments, ability to drive difficult loads and punch above their price point.
All the best in your quest, Basile

Octave: RE 320

www.octave.de

Amplification - Locrian Audio

Locrian Audio offers a unique selection of amplification products from EMM Labs, Ypsilon Electronics and German Physiks that have been recognized internationally as being trend-setters and on top of their game. Their designers have an original approach on how they arrive at reproducing music but...

locrian-audio.com

 

[morricab]

Friends,

Hope everyone is well here. I am visiting after a long time. I have a query on behalf of a close buddy of mine. He is using a pair of TAD CR1x loudspeakers. Gorgeous speakers for sure. The source is an EMT 927 TT & JPA66 preamp. For the amplification things are getting tricky. He has tried the TAD M700s reference power amp and while it sounds very controlled, it doesn't have the openness and dimensionality of tone that a good tube/SET amp provides. We are considering trying a good SET for this system. Given that TAD needs some power to blossom well and expand effortlessly, at least 40 watts of SET power would be needed. The quick choices are Kondo Kagura, Audio Note(UK) Gaku-On & Wavac HE833 Mk2. But I need more suggestions :

1. The first concern is, is it okay to pair a TAD CR1x which is an 86db sensitive (and not a very easy load) with an SET? Has anyone tried such a pairing?

2. Has anyone heard the Kondo, AN(UK) and Wavac gears to suggest a comparison? I am just a bit worried on the amount of Silver used in Kondo. I have normally found that silver takes away something from the flow and harmonics. Tell me more about it.

2. What other options can be considered in this realm? No SS please. If there is a terrific tube push-pull amp that I should consider, do suggest


Room size is moderate 17 x 13 feet. Music preferred are classic rock, jazz, pop and some classical.

Aries Cerat Concero signature

 

[gestalt]

Trafomatic Pandora (https://www.trafomaticaudio.com/products/pandora/?portfolioCats=12) offers 40 watts from directly heated triodes but in a push/pull design. I'd wager you'll prefer that configuration on the TADs more than a true SET.

 

[KeithR]

my suggestion is a different speaker if you want SET amps.

 

[Al M.]

my suggestion is a different speaker if you want SET amps.

Agreed.

 

[Al M.]

2. What other options can be considered in this realm? No SS please. If there is a terrific tube push-pull amp that I should consider, do suggest


Room size is moderate 17 x 13 feet. Music preferred are classic rock, jazz, pop and some classical.

I love my Octave RE 320 tube push-pull amp with Super Black Box, which is an additional large capacitor bank (paired with Octave HP700 preamp). Gives you 130 W/ch into 4 Ohm, a much better option for the TAD speakers than a, for the speaker type, almost inevitably underpowered SET amp (for my system, see my signature).

Auditioning in your system would be mandatory, speaker/amp pairing is tricky.

 

[jbrrp1]

Friends,

Hope everyone is well here. I am visiting after a long time. I have a query on behalf of a close buddy of mine. He is using a pair of TAD CR1x loudspeakers. Gorgeous speakers for sure. The source is an EMT 927 TT & JPA66 preamp. For the amplification things are getting tricky. He has tried the TAD M700s reference power amp and while it sounds very controlled, it doesn't have the openness and dimensionality of tone that a good tube/SET amp provides. We are considering trying a good SET for this system. Given that TAD needs some power to blossom well and expand effortlessly, at least 40 watts of SET power would be needed. The quick choices are Kondo Kagura, Audio Note(UK) Gaku-On & Wavac HE833 Mk2. But I need more suggestions :

1. The first concern is, is it okay to pair a TAD CR1x which is an 86db sensitive (and not a very easy load) with an SET? Has anyone tried such a pairing?

2. Has anyone heard the Kondo, AN(UK) and Wavac gears to suggest a comparison? I am just a bit worried on the amount of Silver used in Kondo. I have normally found that silver takes away something from the flow and harmonics. Tell me more about it.

2. What other options can be considered in this realm? No SS please. If there is a terrific tube push-pull amp that I should consider, do suggest


Room size is moderate 17 x 13 feet. Music preferred are classic rock, jazz, pop and some classical.

I tried a set of Lampizator 211 amps (their 1st iteration) on my TAD CR-1's for shits and giggles, and it was an atrocious match. The impedance differences in the speakers translated directly into poor bass and a bright balance that I cannot imagine anyone liking. I had the 211's to use with some Teresonic Ingenium Silvers that I also used from time-to-time: much better pairing! I seriously doubt there are SET amps up for the TAD's challenging impedance and lower sensitivity.

 

[Phantom-Audio]

In addition, I would recommend considering the Aries Cerat Essentia or Quintessence. These options offer easier maintenance, enhanced speaker and bass control compared to numerous tube amplifiers, all while delivering SET Sound in the midrange and upper treble.

 

[Phantom-Audio]

I tried a set of Lampizator 211 amps (their 1st iteration) on my TAD CR-1's for shits and giggles, and it was an atrocious match. The impedance differences in the speakers translated directly into poor bass and a bright balance that I cannot imagine anyone liking. I had the 211's to use with some Teresonic Ingenium Silvers that I also used from time-to-time: much better pairing! I seriously doubt there are SET amps up for the TAD's challenging impedance and lower sensitivity.

It's true that finding a SET Amplifier capable of effectively controlling TAD Speakers can be quite challenging. The Aries Cerat Quintessence a TriodeFet 95KG Mono amps in Class A is a suitable option for this task. However, you might also consider a robust Tube Amp, which could steer you away from SET amplifiers. While a high-powered PP Tube amp could suffice, there may be a compromise on the midrange in this setup.

 

[mtemur]

Has anyone heard the Kondo, AN(UK) and Wavac gears to suggest a comparison?

I heard Kondo Kaguras, AN(UK) and Wavac 833s many times at my friends’ setups. IMHO rule out AN UK Gakuoh or anything else together with Wavac 833s. The only ones that can do the job are Kondo Kaguras from your list. My friend is driving Kharma exquisite classic signatures easily with Kaguras. I heard various speakers with them including 87dB ones.

If you insist on Wavac then go for 805 stereo power amp equipped with Tango transformers before Tango went out of business (before 2014). Don’t insist on ANUK. They sound silky smooth but no drive (soundwise) or energy.

But best solution would be replacing speakers with big TAD R1s because small, bookshelf speakers (TAD CR-1s are not actually small) need powerful amps. They are not good matches for SETs. As the power goes down with SETs the speakers should get bigger.

 

[Amir]

Nobody can recommend you any amplifier without direct listening experience. Even if a high power tube amplifier drive your speaker it does not mean the amplifier is good match for your speaker. The speaker amplifier matching is a complex subject.

TAD CR1 needs power and TAD M700/C700 or Vitus MP-M201/L201 are perfect match.
If you want better/warmer sound go for a good analog setup and a better AC supply.
Finding right position for your speaker can change the sound/tone dramatically.

 

[Amir]

 

[Amir]

 

[DasguteOhr]

https://vivaaudio.com/en/products/aurora/

 

[Sablon Audio]

Might you be able to achieve these objectives with some tube rolling in your preamp?

 

[Golum]

Want to have 170W of pure DHT SET power...well there is an option for that, and it can drive whatever You need it to drive.
NAT - Innovative Audio Manufacture - Magma Evo (nataudio.com)

 

[Al M.]

Want to have 170W of pure DHT SET power...well there is an option for that, and it can drive whatever You need it to drive.
NAT - Innovative Audio Manufacture - Magma Evo (nataudio.com)

Including speakers with impedance dips below 4 Ohm?

 

[mtemur]

There are two misconceptions regarding this topic:

- Speaker sensitivity is not primary decisive factor matching a tube amplifier. Phase characteristics is more important especially in the bass region.

- Same goes for output power of a tube amplifier. How good the transformer is more important than power when it comes to driving demanding speakers. If there is no transformer it’s even worse depending on the design. For example I love the sound of Tenor 75Watt OTLs but they cannot drive almost anything with their 75 watts. I heard 2A3 amps driving better than that with 3.5 watts.

 

[morricab]

There are two misconceptions regarding this topic:

- Speaker sensitivity is not primary decisive factor matching a tube amplifier. Phase characteristics is more important especially in the bass region.

- Same goes for output power of a tube amplifier. How good the transformer is more important than power when it comes to driving demanding speakers. If there is no transformer it’s even worse depending on the design. For example I love the sound of Tenor 75Watt OTLs but they cannot drive almost anything with their 75 watts. I heard 2A3 amps driving better than that with 3.5 watts.

I am finding that the driver stage has a profound effect on how well an amp is perceived as having "drive" on a speaker. SETs that use transformer coupling between the input/driver and output stage seem to be particularly potent sounding.