I said I would never buy another Turntable...Argh !!!

rockitman said:

My issue with digital....save for Grateful Dead, virtually everything I have on CD I now have on vinyl and or tape. The bulk of the music I like to listen to spanning Classic rock/pop to Jazz to classical...it's all analog mastered. Seems pointless for that music to go A/D then D/A again. At this level anyways.

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certainly follow the music. for me; I listen to so much classical digital music. and there is so much more recent classical high rez music for me to listen to.

I know you do listen to lots of classical vinyl. imagine unlimited access to much more great sounding digital classical music. lots of classical music niche's to explore. you won't love it all, but lots will resonate with you if it sounds great. and trust me, digital can sound like very good vinyl.

anyway; what have you got to lose? you are going to have analog gear sitting there not being used anyway. why not re-task those assets into digital opportunities and musical travels? it would be revenue neutral and not slow down your analog enjoyment one iota.

spiritofmusic said:

Mike, have you had even a moment of weakness and considered David's ultimate prize as a final final tt upgrade?
Esp w your digital now so progressed in its evolution.
Would certainly be an all out assault on maintaining the analog faith 200%.
If David has really married the heft and solidity of the AS w perhaps uber neutrality, speed and certitude from perhaps the most over engineered and over specced motor in tt history, I can only begin to imagine what a space and time machine this baby represents, how it'll knock down the door of yr Studer and draw another boundary to the best of current SOTA digital.

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Marc,
You should know by now that Mike is never going to be outdone he was in on it from the moment it up on line !

I'm actually looking forward to hearing the big Herzan table Mike's looking into, it's got the solid massive structure that I know works and active electronics designed for something as substantial as the AS, it's something new for me we'll see how it goes at Mike's in spring.

david

Hey David, Congrats with your ongoing adventure...more fans stateside to join you and Mr. L in the fun!!

Very Best Wishes,
ALF

rockitman said:

Very good point. I'm just feeling the collector in me. For the longest time I only listened to the AF1 and very little to my CA Master Innovation. That has changed recently. I like mixing things up now and then...TT's, phono stages (2 in operation currently).

Right now I am staying focused on room preparations for when the Hammer is ready to drop . It would be awesome if that active isolation workstation could be powder coated black, along with the two AVI isolation beams, controller unit, ect.

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Herzan can easily do that. they often brand their gear to particular institution's colors and logo's.

and our lead time is pretty good right now for end of Q1 delivery, that's 6 months.

Wow what a thread. Christian and Mike... Congrats... And congrats to Marc too for asking Mike that question... and congrats to ddk of course

Hey Ked, I'm the one person on this thread who really doesn't deserve any accolades.
I'm just loving this "best of 1970s" old school engineering and materials vibe hybridised with a "supercharged cutting edge new millennium" modern day overspecced motor vibe.
If you guys are really getting a no compromise across the board, I can't imagine how good vinyl is going to be in yr respective homes.
I suspect at the very least a whole lot more lps are going to sound like the best 15ips tape has to offer.

ALF said:

Hey David, Congrats with your ongoing adventure...more fans stateside to join you and Mr. L in the fun!!

Very Best Wishes,
ALF

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Thanks Alf, congratulations to the gents here for getting in on the adventure. I'm very happy that the new AS's are going to good friends !

david

spiritofmusic said:

Hey Ked, I'm the one person on this thread who really doesn't deserve any accolades.
I'm just loving this "best of 1970s" old school engineering and materials vibe hybridised with a "supercharged cutting edge new millennium" modern day overspecced motor vibe.
If you guys are really getting a no compromise across the board, I can't imagine how good vinyl is going to be in yr respective homes.
I suspect at the very least a whole lot more lps are going to sound like the best 15ips tape has to offer.

Click to expand...

The motor is also the best of the best from the 70's, the Golden age of turntables & tape machines!

david

rockitman said:

Time to call Herzan for another custom made welded steel TT stand...this time with a 32"x20" top plate foot print.

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The footprint of this Hammer is 24" x 14" with the motor in horizontal, no need to go so large

You Americans are real Easy Lover

Kind regards,
Tang

Dear Christian and Mike,

Congratulations on ordering the turntables from David! We likely will be in for a fascinating experience out of which, hopefully, will come one of the best turntables in the world!

I have been working with Tim of Herzan on a heavy-duty -- and heavier -- version of a custom Herzan stand for the new turntable. I have specified 3" (rather than 2") box legs for this stand, with a table top designed to support the TS-300, or the TS-300 with enhanced, 340 kg load capacity.

I also have specified the external linear (non-switching) power supply. For my tabletop I have opted for 1/2" stainless steel.

Since I may be ordering three of these stands to support all of my (future) components, Tim is looking into the additional cost of powder-coating with high-quality automotive paint.

I do not know if I actually will use a TS-300 under the turntable -- I probably will not -- but I wanted to preserve the option to do so in the future, which is why I have been working on this Herzan stand as an alternative to David's recommendation of the very similar Kinetic Systems stand. Also, the custom Herzans would allow me to have matching stands.

Ron, I'm booked on that plane to LA.
Ra will come along and FINALLY see/hear what a true high end system is all about.
I'm so envious of you guys.
Remember, if you get fed up of the new AS, I'll offer you a pretty good (according to me)/poor (according to you) deal to take it off yr hands LOL.

rockitman said:

Ordered an American Sound Turntable. Weight of the TT with two armboards is around 200kg,..440 lb.. Motor is an additional 30kg, 66lb. A true heavy weight with air bearing and no vacuum hold down. David does an excellent job of convincing one to do the best thing for their record playback. I am taking an early Spring 2018 time slot so I have a good wait to go. Time to call Herzan for another custom made welded steel TT stand...this time with a 32"x20" top plate foot print. These are pictures of David's beast with the new motor and motor controller (hope he doesn't mind). I am still numb from this buying decision experience....

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ddk said:

The motor is also the best of the best from the 70's, the Golden age of turntables & tape machines!

david

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Congratulations, rockitman (and Mike)!

I wonder if I could ask a question of yourself and ddk regarding the motor unit and controller.

They appear to be similar to these ones mentioned here on WBF member airbearing’s site AudioCirc.com, and be reminiscent of the Micro Seiki 8000 in form…

https://audiocirc.com/2017/01/10/a-superb-ac-motor-control-unit/

https://13audio.com/2014/01/19/some-serious-turntable-motors/

Without divulging proprietary information, could either of you talk to the American Sound’s motor and control unit’s origins and its design ethos?

Thanks, and congrats again,

853guy

David, Ron, Christian, Mike - congratulations! Breathtaking project guys. You are pushing the frontiers of vinyl reproduction art!

Cheers,

Tango said:

The footprint of this Hammer is 24" x 14" with the motor in horizontal, no need to go so large

You Americans are real Easy Lover

Kind regards,
Tang

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hi Tang,

yes, that's us....'easy lovers'. I will inform my wonderful wife about that.....and see what she says.

regarding the size of the footprint; my perspective on that is related to how the tension of the belt is adjusted, and ease of use. basically you slide the whole motor assembly along the platform to adjust tension, which sounds crude but is an essential part of the design.....this tuning the sound to taste. it seems to me that keeping the motor assembly on the long axis will allow for a more precise approach to this aspect of the design. I can see having some sort of scale on the front and rear of the platform to keep the motor aligned as it's adjusted might be helpful. until I actually go through this a few times i'm not sure how it will go. but with all the effort to get this turntable up and running i'd rather allow myself the flexibility of the long axis. and I don't have 2 (or 3) other turntables in my room to be concerned with footprint.

btw; is there something you want to tell all of us?

Ron Resnick said:

Dear Christian and Mike,

Congratulations on ordering the turntables from David! We likely will be in for a fascinating experience out of which, hopefully, will come one of the best turntables in the world!

I have been working with Tim of Herzan on a heavy-duty -- and heavier -- version of a custom Herzan stand for the new turntable. I have specified 3" (rather than 2") box legs for this stand, with a table top designed to support the TS-300, or the TS-300 with enhanced, 340 kg load capacity.

I also have specified the external linear (non-switching) power supply. For my tabletop I have opted for 1/2" stainless steel.

Since I may be ordering three of these stands to support all of my (future) components, Tim is looking into the additional cost of powder-coating with high-quality automotive paint.

I do not know if I actually will use a TS-300 under the turntable -- I probably will not -- but I wanted to preserve the option to do so in the future, which is why I have been working on this Herzan stand as an alternative to David's recommendation of the very similar Kinetic Systems stand. Also, the custom Herzans would allow me to have matching stands.

Click to expand...

Ron,

thanks. we are all three a bit nuts......maybe more than a bit.

regarding the rack question; I think that the TS-300 is the wrong choice for a number of reasons. the AVI units are simply better performers as they are larger form factors and so enjoy that advantage for better performance, as well as being much cheaper, and have the added advantage of using the LFS unit to improve performance. the auto leveling feature of the TS units has no benefit in our application how we will use these. and the Nanodamp NWD 23A series platform is engineered to be the perfect solution already and there is no need to make it different. it is designed for 660 pounds/300 kg.

I've requested a few modifications which the techs at Herzan are reviewing; (1) linear power supplies, (2) moving the control unit to the rear to allow for more space for (3) shelves, (4) plastic caps on the legs for sand or shot fill, (5) either large screw flat feet or spikes, and (6) possibly taller to both accommodate more shelf height and allow for a better working height for cartridge/arm adjustments and record on and off.

working height is a benefit one never thinks of until it's uncomfortable and it's too late to deal with. with 4 tonearms it can be make or break long term.

I realize David's perspective on the thick steel top plate. but you are going to have huge bass towers in a much smaller space than David has. those bass towers (like mine) will cause feedback I don't care how much mass you have.....it's just physics. David's bass units are much less intrusive and over 30 feet from his platform. think about it. and a sandwich/breadboard type of top surface has properties more appropriate than thick steel in terms of energy retention. ask Tim or Reid about that. Taiko Tana have done investigations into this question.

there are similar capacity 'standard' Nanodamp NDW racks which would match the look of the active shelves, so you could use 3 of these and get the tech you want with each. and they are already designed for the task.

Mike, you're moving back to belt drive, what, a decade after you fully moved away with the Rockport Sirius.
What's your perspective on the switch back?
I know you may very well say it's all in the implementation, and this uber AS is as good as belt drive gets.
But surely there are going to many aspects of even this solution that don't get to where your Sirius did, and now yr NVS does, that you might feel you're missing out on.
Or is it all "having your cake, and eating it" with the uber AS?
(PS does this thing have an officially different name?).

spiritofmusic said:

Mike, you're moving back to belt drive, what, a decade after you fully moved away with the Rockport Sirius.
What's your perspective on the switch back?
I know you may very well say it's all in the implementation, and this uber AS is as good as belt drive gets.
But surely there are going to many aspects of even this solution that don't get to where your Sirius did, and now yr NVS does, that you might feel you're missing out on.
Or is it all "having your cake, and eating it" with the uber AS?
(PS does this thing have an officially different name?).

Click to expand...

I follow my ears. my visit to David's was the first time I heard a profound performance taking turntable performance further than what I have been hearing in my own room. no matter belt or direct drive. but I was never around the whole Micro Seiki craze at all, so I cannot comment on how close those come to the American Sound. I've never been smitten with the belt driven Techdas performance, but certainly have liked it plenty.

there was a time I had quite a bit of turntable drive approach direct-drive dogma in my viewpoint. but in the last 5 years or so my views on that issue have evolved to a more result orientation. most of my favorite turntables have turned out to be direct drive, but not all of them.

as far as a name, that's a David question. for now, this new American Sound turntable is the AS-2000.

spiritofmusic said:

Mike, have you had even a moment of weakness and considered David's ultimate prize as a final final tt upgrade?
Esp w your digital now so progressed in its evolution.
Would certainly be an all out assault on maintaining the analog faith 200%.
If David has really married the heft and solidity of the AS w perhaps uber neutrality, speed and certitude from perhaps the most over engineered and over specced motor in tt history, I can only begin to imagine what a space and time machine this baby represents, how it'll knock down the door of yr Studer and draw another boundary to the best of current SOTA digital.

Click to expand...

Marc, did you notice that the AS table is belt drive? I'm teasing you.

rockitman said:

I am definately getting the 3012 from David if he can source me one. The second arm is the question....Graham Supreme or SAT....

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Congratulations Christian. I'll be curious to see if you end up keeping all three turntables. You read my mind when you mentioned the SAT arm. I would love to read a comparison between it and the 3012R.

With all of the vinyl listening I see in your future, will you have any time to take more of your amazing bird photographs? I admire your drive (pun) to seek out the best in whatever you pursue.

Yep Peter.
I'm in! LOL
Look, I'm getting an epiphany here in my room w digital.
I'd get multiple epiphanies I'm sure w this AS-2000.
It's just that Mike has seriously walked the walk investing in first the Sirius, and then the NVS.
It's telling that it's likely this uber precise and high torque bespoke motor likely is replicating all the cool stuff assocd w direct drive at the highest level while keeping what's uniquely advantageous about belt drive.
Maybe this is "direct belt"?