FM Acoustics 2011 - how do they sound

Roysen · Feb 3, 2012

I know this is a stretch, but are there anyone out out there who have any hands on experience with these amplifiers. I know they are probably the most sought after hifi components in the Asian market and I have a used pair on hand available to me. The price is obviously on the high side. So before I take a chance with my money before I have even heard them, I hope to get som second hand information on their sound.

In addtion to being very concerned by sound quality I am a keen collector of high end equipemnt and only the collector status alone of these amplifiers is really tempting. They would complete the collection I am working on of what I consider the best amplifiers. As you probably understand from the collection I like a lot of power:

- Dynaudio Arbiter
- Goldmund Telos 5000
- Tube Research Labs Platinum Golden Triode Reference 800
- Sovereign Audio The Sovereign
- Krell Master Reference Amplifiers
- darTZeel NHB-458

ack · Feb 3, 2012

Well, how do other FM amps sound? Like the 811 or 1811? How do they justify the $250K sticker price? They look pretty unimpressive internally for that price or even 1/4 of that.

flez007 · Feb 3, 2012

I heard the 811 at the Genesis room some time back in a larga room (RMAF10 I think), one of the best systems I have heard so far.

FrantzM · Feb 3, 2012

Last time I heard an FM Acoustics it was a 611 I believe a long time ago, would you believe a friend of mine had it and sold it ?!! He is still kicking himself in the butt

It was a good amp as far as I can recall. I must add that was during my Tubes period and I did not pay much attention to SS then .. Prejudice

Gary L. Koh should chime in . He is one of the few people on this board with direct experience with FM Acoustics and has great respect for these.

ack · Feb 3, 2012

Yes highly respected gear...

garylkoh · Feb 6, 2012

If you have the chance to pick up a FM 2011, jump on it. The FM2011 are extremely limited, and probably one of the best amplifiers on the planet. FM Acoustics was what got me off the tube bandwagon - they have all the benefits of tube and all the benefits of SS. Unfortunately, hugely expensive and far beyond the price/performance curve. But if you have the means, and it sounds like you do, you should get it. Let us know how it compares to the rest of your collection.

The problem with the FM power amps is that they require proprietary speaker cables and they sound good only driven by FM Acoustics preamps. So, if you get the FM2011, be also prepared to shell out megabucks for a FM268.

LL21 · Feb 6, 2012

garylkoh said:
If you have the chance to pick up a FM 2011, jump on it. The FM2011 are extremely limited, and probably one of the best amplifiers on the planet. FM Acoustics was what got me off the tube bandwagon - they have all the benefits of tube and all the benefits of SS. Unfortunately, hugely expensive and far beyond the price/performance curve. But if you have the means, and it sounds like you do, you should get it. Let us know how it compares to the rest of your collection.

The problem with the FM power amps is that they require proprietary speaker cables and they sound good only driven by FM Acoustics preamps. So, if you get the FM2011, be also prepared to shell out megabucks for a FM268.

Thanks, Gary! always great to read and learn from your posts. I have read many good things about FMA and would love to hear someday. Truthfuly, i have never heard anyone speak about getting off tubes as a result of FMA...now THAT is saying something (to me anyway)! Very cool.

FWIW, Roysen, I have spoken with a few owners in Asia/N America who use the 1811, 811, 611...and all own the 268 as well. And there are innumerable posts about the 'requirement' to run FMA Amps with FMA Preamps. I have been told this even by Vendors who lost the amp sale knowing i was not interested in the pre...specifically, they said not to buy their FMA amp because it would not sound as good as what i was also contemplating given that I enjoy my CJ GAT.

LL21 · Feb 6, 2012

garylkoh said:
If you have the chance to pick up a FM 2011, jump on it. The FM2011 are extremely limited, and probably one of the best amplifiers on the planet. FM Acoustics was what got me off the tube bandwagon - they have all the benefits of tube and all the benefits of SS.

So here is the question from someone who has never heard FMA...which model(s) did you hear...and what other SOTA amps came close, either tube or SS?

ack · Feb 6, 2012

garylkoh said:
The problem with the FM power amps is that they require proprietary speaker cables and they sound good only driven by FM Acoustics preamps. So, if you get the FM2011, be also prepared to shell out megabucks for a FM268.

Yeap, and you can't swap the power cord either - but none of these are problems I would personally care; they pay specific attention to their cable designs and have very interesting papers on their web site about all this... In the end, it's about system approach to sound reproduction.

garylkoh · Feb 6, 2012

lloydelee21 said:
So here is the question from someone who has never heard FMA...which model(s) did you hear...and what other SOTA amps came close, either tube or SS?

I've experience with the 802, 411, 611, and 611X. Heard the 111, 1811 and the 2011 in Genesis customer systems. Also, multiple amps (bi- and tri- amplified Genesis 1's). In preamps, direct experience with 155, 245, 255, and 266. Heard the 268 in customer systems. In phono, 122 and 222.

Various components have strengths that allow them to approach the FM Acoustics in one or more aspects. I can't even begin to start to compare them because there are too many to mention - besides power amplifiers are very system dependent. Except for an all-Burmester system, I have not heard any phono/preamp/power amp complete system that even begin to approach an FM Acoustics system. But this is just one listener's opinion.

garylkoh · Feb 6, 2012

ack said:
Yeap, and you can't swap the power cord either - but none of these are problems I would personally care; they pay specific attention to their cable designs and have very interesting papers on their web site about all this... In the end, it's about system approach to sound reproduction.

Exactly! FM Acoustics show an obsession with system building that IMHO pays off. I have not heard any other cables that would work well with a complete FM Acoustics system. On the other hand, their cables don't sound very good with other electronics. So, for a complete systems approach - I think that they take the cake.

A complete system that starts from the tonearm cable and ends at their loudspeaker is hard to beat.

LL21 · Feb 7, 2012

garylkoh said:
I've experience with the 802, 411, 611, and 611X. Heard the 111, 1811 and the 2011 in Genesis customer systems. Also, multiple amps (bi- and tri- amplified Genesis 1's). In preamps, direct experience with 155, 245, 255, and 266. Heard the 268 in customer systems. In phono, 122 and 222.

Various components have strengths that allow them to approach the FM Acoustics in one or more aspects. I can't even begin to start to compare them because there are too many to mention - besides power amplifiers are very system dependent. Except for an all-Burmester system, I have not heard any phono/preamp/power amp complete system that even begin to approach an FM Acoustics system. But this is just one listener's opinion.

Wow...now i really want to hear them! That said, i did think seriously about a 411mk2 second-hand...and became a little cautious on two counts: 1) on super-difficult loads (Magico minis) i have heard they can overheat and clip; 2) i have heard for some reason there is an issue using them on 240V in the UK...a dealer i spoke with actually said the manufacturer has hedged on this point and there was no definitive reason given, but there was some implicit confirmation that (at least older models) might have an issue in 240V.

fas42 · Feb 7, 2012

garylkoh said:
Exactly! FM Acoustics show an obsession with system building that IMHO pays off. I have not heard any other cables that would work well with a complete FM Acoustics system. On the other hand, their cables don't sound very good with other electronics. So, for a complete systems approach - I think that they take the cake.

A complete system that starts from the tonearm cable and ends at their loudspeaker is hard to beat.

+1

Frank

garylkoh · Feb 7, 2012

lloydelee21 said:
Wow...now i really want to hear them! That said, i did think seriously about a 411mk2 second-hand...and became a little cautious on two counts: 1) on super-difficult loads (Magico minis) i have heard they can overheat and clip; 2) i have heard for some reason there is an issue using them on 240V in the UK...a dealer i spoke with actually said the manufacturer has hedged on this point and there was no definitive reason given, but there was some implicit confirmation that (at least older models) might have an issue in 240V.

That's wise - the 411's did have problems with difficult loads. I would have thought that there would be issues with 115V rather than 240V. Most of FM Acoustics are in Asia and Europe and very few in the US.

djanggo · Feb 8, 2012

garylkoh said:
If you have the chance to pick up a FM 2011, jump on it. The FM2011 are extremely limited, and probably one of the best amplifiers on the planet. FM Acoustics was what got me off the tube bandwagon - they have all the benefits of tube and all the benefits of SS. Unfortunately, hugely expensive and far beyond the price/performance curve. But if you have the means, and it sounds like you do, you should get it. Let us know how it compares to the rest of your collection.

The problem with the FM power amps is that they require proprietary speaker cables and they sound good only driven by FM Acoustics preamps. So, if you get the FM2011, be also prepared to shell out megabucks for a FM268.

++1

clab · Feb 15, 2012

I was wondering if the pre phono FM 122 is really that good, and better than an AR ref or Manley for example ?

Gary, I saw you sold your FM 266 because you seem to appreciate very much the VRE 1 C ... which, if I am right, costs 20% of the FM 268 ?
this don's speak too much in favor of FM, especially considering the price ... ?

have a nice day

garylkoh · Feb 15, 2012

clab said:
I was wondering if the pre phono FM 122 is really that good, and better than an AR ref or Manley for example ?

Gary, I saw you sold your FM 266 because you seem to appreciate very much the VRE 1 C ... which, if I am right, costs 20% of the FM 268 ?
this don's speak too much in favor of FM, especially considering the price ... ?

have a nice day

I don't know if the FM 122 is better than the latest AR Reference Phono 2 SE, but it was better than the original Reference Phono when I compared them about 8 or 9 years ago. I didn't like the Manley Steelhead when I heard it in a customer's system, so I didn't do a direct comparison. I used to bring it around, and I did directly compare to a number of phono stages, but didn't find anything better until the Burmester Ph100 (which was twice the price of the FM 122).

However, having sold it and bought the Ph100, I miss the ability to adjust RIAA curves for some of the older recordings I have. The RIAA curve adjustment also allows a bass cut for some records that are mastered for systems that have insufficient bass and are bass boosted. One of my customers just bought a Ref 2 SE, so I may just take a road trip to his place in Wyoming (when it stops snowing in the passes) and bring my Ph100 for a comparo.

I don't think that the FM 268 and the VRE-1 C are directly comparable. The 268 has a superlative built-in graphic equalizer (FM calls it a linearizer). If I was more of a tweaker, I might have got the 268, but using it to tweak your system is the wrong way to use it. It is intended to tweak recordings that are done less than linear (hence the FM122).

The VRE-1C is more directly comparable to the FM255 because they both have both balanced and single-ended inputs (more flexibility for someone like me). But, I think that the VRE-1C is better sounding and is better value for money.

RBFC · Feb 15, 2012

Steve McCormack registered the other day. I hope he will join in the conversation and answer any questions directly!

Lee

SMcAudio · Feb 15, 2012

I will do my best to answer questions that come my way, and just as soon as I get my clone army finished I will have plenty of time ;-) I certainly appreciate Gary's comments about the VRE-1C - he has an extraordinary breadth of experience and knowledge so I find his feedback especially useful. Questions, anyone?

Peter · Feb 15, 2012

I just noticed on the Wizard Audio blog that FMA is coming out with a monoblock version of the 1811 called the 118....costing only 400,000 Swiss Francs/ pair. So to drive FMA's own loudspeakers, you'll need to drop 800,000 CHF ... Sounds like FMA is competing with Goldmund to bring out the most ridiculously priced gear available. I've heard FMA and it's good, but not that good - this is well past the point of diminishing returns IMHO.

FM Acoustics 2011 - how do they sound

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