DAC Shootout: Phison PD2SE, Rockna Signature Wavedream, COS D1V2, Metrum Adagio

stephen_volker

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Over the weekend, February 17th, I met up Mike - Founder of Verastarr Cables, Gary - fellow audiophile, and Johnny - another fellow audiophile. We took around 10 hours comparing the Phison PD2SE, Rockna Wavedream Signature, COS D1 V1 & V2, and the Metrum Adagio. We used both the Phison A2 120 in monoblock configuration and the Jeff Rowland Model 12 monoblocks and the same Verastarr cables throughout, XLR interconnects between components, USB for the DAC, and of course power for power.

There were several lessons I learned from this shootout but to skip the common TLDR issue I'll start with the summary and then I can go into details if anyone wants.

Matching components when working with high end equipment is important and to achieve the best sound should be carefully considered. The PD2SE has a liquid smooth presentation full of detail. The snaps in Billy Joel's innocent Man trail and are captured cleanly. The separation within the image is clear, and DAC is so transparent that I find myself no longer listening to the system and instead listening to the music. With a detailed amp such as the Phison A2 120, one should expect an exciting listening experience with no listening fatigue. The details will be there but will not be overly accentuated. I understand with any gear this caliber that the soundstage and imaging should be on point. This was true for the Phison, Rockna, and COS D1 V2. One word of caution is that when pairing the PD2SE with a more laid-back the presentation will follow suite and be a little laid back. For my taste I prefer matching the Phison preamps or DACs with very fast and accurate amplifiers. It will be a very synergistic match if you follow that advice. The D2SE which is DAC with no line stage can be had at $8,500 while the PD2SE, which is a linestage that integrates the D2SE can be had at $14,000.

The Rockna Wavedream Signature is an impressive and analytical DAC. It should be. The stand-alone DAC pulls every ounce of detail out of any song. On an Innocent Man reverb on the snaps trails are a little longer, and every echo is perfectly captured. With a quality solid-state amp or a good tube amp, this DAC will sing. However, if the amp is analytical, this DAC will follow suite and be too analytical and not liquid enough for my taste. With careful matching this also is an great option and it should be as it is the most expensive of the pieces we tested at an MSRP of $17,500

The COS D1 V2 had a reasonably exciting sound and is a significant leap above the now discontinued COS D1 V1. The design was my favorite of all DACs reviewed. The single knob for control, no visible screws in the front or top, and clean finish just make it an interesting piece to have on a rack, almost like it should be in an art gallery. However, it did lack some of the energy and detail of the Phison and Rockna. We did not try this with the Phison A2 120 but I think it would have been a better match than with the Rowland amplifiers. It was comfortable and smooth but did not engage enough of my left brain to really complete the listening experience for me. The COS D1V2 can be found for $9,000.

The Metrum Adagio was the first DAC we auditioned and was by far the most laid back. While built like a tank, it lacked much of the detail and energy compared to any of the other DACs we auditioned. The Metrum Adagio can be found for around $7,000.

Feel free to ask me any questions and I'll try to pull the answers!

Associated gear:
Speakers: Heavily Modified Magnepans
Subs: Mike Powell custom built subwoofers
Digital Source: Homemade Music Server
File Format: DSD 128, DSD 256, DOP 128
Cabling: Verastarr top of the line
More but I will need to ask exactly what
 
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Empirical Audio

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What playback software was used on the server? Filetypes? FLAC, WAV?

When using USB, the USB cable and the things above are critical.

FYI, Ethernet is the preferred interface to USB now because It delivers better SQ with fewer hoops to jump through.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
 

PhisonAudio

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What playback software was used on the server? Filetypes? FLAC, WAV?

When using USB, the USB cable and the things above are critical.

FYI, Ethernet is the preferred interface to USB now because It delivers better SQ with fewer hoops to jump through.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio


Hi Steve.

There is always a trade off regardless of the interface you choose.

To make it easy to test all platforms i think (I was not there only over whatsapp! :O/ ) they had chosen USB as it is the most commonly available interface and it is also available on you DAC's from what i can see.

We do have an optional I2S over HDMI connector on our DAC's/PREAMP's in the SE version. We have in planing of doing a platform that enables Ethernet connectivity to the DAC section as we have the I2S interface available. And with everything else we make it is possible to add this option later on.

BR

Sonny / PHISON Audio
 

stephen_volker

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Nov 2, 2015
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Hi Steve,

We were using mainly FLAC and DSD 64 files being upconverted to DSD 256, DOP 128, and some DSD 128.

We kept the same USB cable across all DACs, which was a custom cable created by Verastarr Cables. I'll try to get more specifics from Mike.
 

Empirical Audio

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Hi Steve.

There is always a trade off regardless of the interface you choose.

To make it easy to test all platforms i think (I was not there only over whatsapp! :O/ ) they had chosen USB as it is the most commonly available interface and it is also available on you DAC's from what i can see.

We do have an optional I2S over HDMI connector on our DAC's/PREAMP's in the SE version. We have in planing of doing a platform that enables Ethernet connectivity to the DAC section as we have the I2S interface available. And with everything else we make it is possible to add this option later on.

BR

Sonny / PHISON Audio

What I really like about this is not so much the I2S, but the fact that there is no resampling or other jitter measures on this interface, it goes directly to the D/A. This enables new interfaces to have lower and lower jitter, enabling your product to sound better and better. I'm not a fan of reclocking in the DAC unless it can be bypassed.

My products have HDMI I2S outputs on some of them BTW, like my new Ethernet renderer, the Interchange. 15psec of jitter.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
 

Empirical Audio

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Hi Steve,

We were using mainly FLAC and DSD 64 files being upconverted to DSD 256, DOP 128, and some DSD 128.

We kept the same USB cable across all DACs, which was a custom cable created by Verastarr Cables. I'll try to get more specifics from Mike.

The problem with USB IMO, is you are comparing USB interfaces mostly, not DAC's when you use USB. It's an uneven playing field.

This is why I like to compare DAC's using S/PDIF, assuming the DAC's have no resampling on that interface. Then you are hearing all the DAC's given the same signal with the same jitter.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
 
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PhisonAudio

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The problem with USB IMO, is you are comparing USB interfaces mostly, not DAC's when you use USB. It's an uneven playing field.

This is why I like to compare DAC's using S/PDIF, assuming the DAC's have no resampling on that interface. Then you are hearing all the DAC's given the same signal with the same jitter.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

I do not agree Steve. if you compare DAC's from the USB port, then it is the complete signal path inside the DAC not just the USB. Any weak link will show in the Soundstage you are listening to.

BR

Sonny
 

Empirical Audio

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I do not agree Steve. if you compare DAC's from the USB port, then it is the complete signal path inside the DAC not just the USB. Any weak link will show in the Soundstage you are listening to.

BR

Sonny

I've designed 6 generations of USB interfaces myself, so I have some experience. The thing that varies the most in modern DAC's IMO is the USB interface, and it's mostly because of the jitter differences. Each DAC will be using a different Master Clock with different jitter signature. In many of them, it holds back the performance of the DAC. USB quality is also dependent on the playback software, mostly I believe due to the volume DSP. This is why the Sonore Ethernet to USB products are so popular. It eliminates some of this dependency.

I suppose if you are comparing USB DACs, then you need to use USB. Using an Ethernet to USB converter would probably even the playing field a little.

Steve N.
 
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PhisonAudio

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I've designed 6 generations of USB interfaces myself, so I have some experience. The thing that varies the most in modern DAC's IMO is the USB interface, and it's mostly because of the jitter differences. Each DAC will be using a different Master Clock with different jitter signature. In many of them, it holds back the performance of the DAC. USB quality is also dependent on the playback software, mostly I believe due to the volume DSP. This is why the Sonore Ethernet to USB products are so popular. It eliminates some of this dependency.

I suppose if you are comparing USB DACs, then you need to use USB. Using an Ethernet to USB converter would probably even the playing field a little.

Steve N.

I would love to talk about it Steve. But not in this thread.

You can open another thread and i will gladly participate in it, and let me know when you have opened it.

This Thread is about the shootout. Not which type of interface, why it is bad or not, pros or cons.

BR

Sonny
 

Verastarr

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Dec 4, 2015
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Well this thread was certainly short and semi hijacked. My feeling and opinion is if a DAC has a crappy USB interface then shame on them, we will take your DAC at face value whether its even playing field or not. We like the manufacturers that put the best available in their product and shun the ones that dont. So if a manufacturer wants to be cheap, its a bad choice, they will be outclassed. Most use XMOS or Amanero anyways. We actually had 2 Metrum Adagios we listened to and one of them had custom Crystek "femto" whatever yadda buzzword oscillators soldered in my yours truly. It helped but still stayed in its corner of musical over detailed. Steve, I cant effing stand USB or HDMI so please brother, bring some design our way.. Whomever decides to use non locking interfaces for outboard data bus should be..... well you know..
I am going to say it as I felt it no disrespect meant and for the record I do not rep any of these. I can resell all of them as a dealer if I like, but I'm not a dealer per se.

Rockna beat the others down. The word that came to mind that day was "decimation". And what I mean when I say this is that it had just a little teeny bit more, BUT... that little teeny bit puts it over the edge into a different weight category. Whats called longer trails and more echo equivocates to realism and lucidity. So one sounds like real life the other sounds like recorded and played back real life. This is the "it" that many people seek and is very elusive. After Rockna Wavedream Signature Balanced, I am without a doubt clear, that this is the job of the DAC. Amps nor preamps nor AC power or room treatment can make something sound real, the DAC is the gatekeeper on that realm in my opinion. So, that being said, lets explore what the job of a DAC is.. A DAC crunches math, its a computer with an output for analog sound. To me there is absolutely no ambiguity in this job. His Job is to be correct, and have no errors in his math. And the whole, unbridled, non sugar coated truth is nearly always hard to hear. Nobody wants that . For the most part people want nice stories, warm and cuddly releases of Oxytocin, and pretty things.. So I say the DAC should be the pain in the ass if hes any good, he is the bearer of truth and the truth sucks a lot of times, but after a while you understand, I can truly count on this guy, because he does not play around and hes got no sense of humor, this bastard is brass tacks serious work the whole time. So I personally value the ornary non forgiving DAC. Anything top of class is non forgiving, be it Thoroughbred Horse, 12 Cylinder Ferrari F1, you see where I am going. I chose to tune my whole rig around the Rockna DAC, because it goes to 11. Just one more click to the promised land. I can tune back stridence but there is no way to tune in 3D utter lifelike lucidity. So if the DAC takes me there but is a force to be reckoned with and needs my attention in tuning the rig like an OCD freak.. Put me on the juice, im going in.. Clearly I am being colorful to get my point across but I do not see it as making sense for the DAC to be forgiving, lets do that somewhere else..

I will comment on the Phison. In my opinion it was very cohesive. It was evident to me the amp and DAC were made for one another. It presented itself with its calling card. I could hear what Sonny wanted to say with his creation, and I honor it. I asked myself, I wonder if this is how people feel in Netherlands ? If so, they feel happy and nice and friendly with smiles to one another.. it was like the little perfect world with everyone in it good, happy and everything happening like clockwork. nice and precision like. So I respect and honor what Sonny has created. I like that it has its own sound and does not try to be someone else for this is the characteristic of a leader. One that follows nobody. So I heard what Sonny was saying and I liked it. Personally speaking, I am not the most politically correct, I am a little direct sometimes and I do have a tendency to step out of line here and there. I found Rockna to be a touch more like my personality. It comes in full bore making no apology. It throws the image in the room not caring if it startles you. Its slightly arrogant perhaps, and perhaps a bit unrefined. This is a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu fighter with swag. Hes gonna kick your ass if you let him. Though if you decide to manage him, the strength and stamina are inexhaustible. So I consider these two seperate ideas in regards to design. Phison is Black Tie, refined and intellectual and would never sully his clothes. Rockna will immediately submit you with calculated precison regardless of venue or condition afterwards.. deal with it.. So in the end its not about one "winning" per se, its about choosing the right vibe for your listening style. I like to listen loud with zero distortion, sometimes to electric rock and roll.
To comment on the USB cable we used one of my design called Nemesis, so far it runs with the big dogs, so its not a crappy one. Also, we did our testing without giving Rockna its advantage of I2s (which is how I normally listen) and without "DeCrappifying" the USB stream through the SOTM de crappifier and its battery power supply (again how I normally listen) So I'm a little late to this party, but Ive been meaning to say my piece in support of Rockna, as it is clearly the best sounding DAC Ive ever had in my rig. That being said, I do not normally play in the league of $15K plus DAC's . Unfortunately at the time of this shootout , my Denafrips Terminator was not in house, But I have heard Sonny has made some improvements to his DAC and so I anticipate another listening session. I must say, I am impressed by Sonnys interaction with his rep and how interactive he is and responsive to design changes. This is very rare, and we highly appreciate the open mindedness of our Design Engineer Heroes. You included Steve.. Ryan from Vapor has been singing your praises to me for a while.. In fact, our Magnepans sounding so good is a result of Ryan and Petes involvement. Cheers Gang, until next time its the OCD HiFi Guy signing off..
 
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Empirical Audio

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Oct 12, 2017
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Steve, I cant effing stand USB or HDMI so please brother, bring some design our way.. Whomever decides to use non locking interfaces for outboard data bus should be..... well you know..

Already have it. Called the Interchange. Ethernet UPnP. The software dependencies are not all gone because of DSP code mucking up the data, but with Linn Kinsky and Minimserver the SQ is out of this world.

BTW, I performed an apples-to-apples comparison of USB to Ethernet on the same hardware playing the same track using the same software:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=155232.0

Ryan from Vapor has been singing your praises to me for a while..

That is very kind of him. I also love his speakers and promote them for him. I have a set of Nimbus that are incredible.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
 
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Verastarr

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Yeah Steve, I was in that room and set up the Lambo Copper bad boys. Another bearer of truth they are.. It was my cabling throughout the rig.

I'll read about your Ethernet, I hope it does not require Windows or MAC OS. I'm a linux supporter. I don't doubt ethernet sounds better. USB was designed for printers as far as I know.

I dont see anything on your site about interchange ... ??

M
 

Empirical Audio

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Oct 12, 2017
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Yeah Steve, I was in that room and set up the Lambo Copper bad boys. Another bearer of truth they are.. It was my cabling throughout the rig.

I'll read about your Ethernet, I hope it does not require Windows or MAC OS. I'm a linux supporter. I don't doubt ethernet sounds better. USB was designed for printers as far as I know.

I dont see anything on your site about interchange ... ??

M

Minimserver and Kinsky can both be installed on Linux. The Interchange is only on my audiocircle forum so far. Customer feedbacks may be posted soon.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
 

stephen_volker

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I agree with some of what was said by Mike of Verrastar; however, strongly disagree with others. Here we go!

I do not believe the Rockna in all setups beat the Phison, or for that matter came close to decimating it. Matching components at this level is critical. The Rockna is an aggressive piece of equipment that rips out every detail from the recording and I give it props for that; however, in my opinion, the Rockna needs tamed by a component. In Mike's system the compentent was a pair of Rowland monoblocks. When the Rockna was paired with the fast circuitry of the Phison A 2.120, the sound quickly became fatiguing. That being said, I will not argue the Rockna had a smidge more detail than the Phison PD2 SE.

When the Phison PD2 SE was matched with the fast circuitry of the Phison A 2.120 amplifier it was a great combination, not laid back and not at all fatiguing. When the Phison PD2 SE was matched with the Rowland, it was nice, but would not be my first recommendation to someone.

The end of day takeaway for me was matching equipment is key. There should be a balance between sides of the brain when listening. The detail must be there for the experience to work but it can quickly become fatiguing. This ruins the experience for me as much as losing detail does. For that reason, I believe there is more to it than straight detail and there is more to creating great equipment than number crunching.

Stephen V
 

Verastarr

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I agree with some of what was said by Mike of Verrastar; however, strongly disagree with others. Here we go!

I do not believe the Rockna in all setups beat the Phison, or for that matter came close to decimating it. Matching components at this level is critical. The Rockna is an aggressive piece of equipment that rips out every detail from the recording and I give it props for that; however, in my opinion, the Rockna needs tamed by a component. In Mike's system the compentent was a pair of Rowland monoblocks. When the Rockna was paired with the fast circuitry of the Phison A 2.120, the sound quickly became fatiguing. That being said, I will not argue the Rockna had a smidge more detail than the Phison PD2 SE.

When the Phison PD2 SE was matched with the fast circuitry of the Phison A 2.120 amplifier it was a great combination, not laid back and not at all fatiguing. When the Phison PD2 SE was matched with the Rowland, it was nice, but would not be my first recommendation to someone.

The end of day takeaway for me was matching equipment is key. There should be a balance between sides of the brain when listening. The detail must be there for the experience to work but it can quickly become fatiguing. This ruins the experience for me as much as losing detail does. For that reason, I believe there is more to it than straight detail and there is more to creating great equipment than number crunching.

Stephen V

Hey Stephen, I agree wholeheartedly when the Phison pieces were together they were neither laid back nor fatiguing. I really liked them and clearly could decipher the Signature. I found it unique and different than other systems Ive heard, and I applaud Sonny for creating a sonic of his own. Its not easy to accomplish that. What the Phison had together was untouchable because it was a signature, and a signature is just that, its the "heres who I am" so nobody could call anything better or worse only speak about the nuances of each being compared. And perhaps I should qualify better, when I spoke of decimation, i was only speaking to lucidity of image and presence of life, my apology for not qualifying that. I consider those 2 characteristics however, the single most important characteristic to me. Any time something is put into a rig, it will never be right just put in from nothing... meaning we tune them in to the rig until they are optimized. Before everyone came I had unplugged the things I use to tune Rockna in. If you were to come to listen to Wavedream SIG BAL today, I'm actually seeking more etch at times. I like defined clear edges from my instruments over diffuse. Another thing to mention is the Rockna has many user adjustable settings from the remote. This includes switching off upsampling for NOS playback, or switching on upsampling and choosing between 3 filters, all which are pretty clear to hear. So this allows a way to turn up or throttle back the leading edge, there is also a DSD playback choice of wide or narrow, a phase invert toggle, a choice of taking the clock off the stream or inside the unit, and a way to turn dither off or on, all of these affecting the presentation. What we did not try here is the USB to i2s converter made my rockna with its ultracapacitor power supply underneath it. This re clocks and cleans USB and converts to 12S via HDMI for input at the DAC, this also improves the sonic character. The take away for me is how hard it is to compare 2 audio pieces in any fair or sane manner. To add to this, My room is not treated yet, we are using a dedicated AC line, but it joins the house noise at the panel, so the room is not sorted or correct as far as I'm concerned. What we all heard was the Rockna having a touch more spaciousness and lucidity of detail, thats putting it into words, the experience was the difference between live and not live so small difference huge result. I am comparing this apples to apples both Dacs on someone elses amp. Rockna has also made amplifiers, and perhaps thats symbiosis made in heaven. who knows. I do not consider Model 12 amps laid back. I consider them articulate and refined. But you know what, the best thing about this was that we all got together and had fun for a day. Thats what I enjoyed.. Soon my room will be done and sorted acoustically.. bring the new DAC up Stephen, I hear its even better !!

All the best !

Mike
 

stephen_volker

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I wouldn't consider the Model 12 amps laid back. I don't think it has the same energy as the Rockna.

I don't consider the PD2 SE laid back. The PD2 SE doesn't have the same amount of energy as the A2.120.

None of these comments are good or bad, just useful for matching components. =)

I'll bring that D2 SE to your place soon!

Stephen V
 

Verastarr

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I wouldn't consider the Model 12 amps laid back. I don't think it has the same energy as the Rockna.

I don't consider the PD2 SE laid back. The PD2 SE doesn't have the same amount of energy as the A2.120.

None of these comments are good or bad, just useful for matching components. =)

I'll bring that D2 SE to your place soon!

Stephen V

DO IT !! If you wait 2 weeks the room and rig will be much more sorted.. Its disarray now..

Mike
 

PhisonAudio

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The main thing for me is the gain-stages, housekeeping, power-supply and most important of it all PCB design. So it has always been. Without this in place we can have different signal topology, digital signal path... It does not matter if the gain-stages is not done properly.
When i was part of the AAVIK Acoustic design team when making the U-300, there was choices made that at some extent i agreed on and at some extent i did not agree on. The U-300 DAC would not have been that good if another opamp was chosen. Nor would the line stage if it was carelessly designed around the switches.
That brings me back to the to my philosophy.

When I designed the Phison product line I started with the power amplifier before preamp and DAC. The goal with the amplifier was to make it as transparent as possible, fast as possible, and have tight control of the speaker. Once accomplished, it enabled us to start to build backwards. I have found that if you don't follow that recipe you will end up with a product that is overly detailed/focused as the amplifier acts like a thick curtain.

For the same reason, I voice my components using Raidho speakers (C1.1) speakers. Which have very good drivers. The Raidho's do have faults, no doubt, but as your playback path gets better they are up to the speed.
 

Verastarr

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Theres another one of my clients down in FL whom Sonny recently sent him a new amp board I believe and he still uses the piece. he was present at this shootout as well. He still uses Phison and loves it. I am about ready to send a GaN amp which is the new breed of Class D, hammering Class A left and right. I still love Rockna as they did a firmware update after this shootout to mellow the attack on the hybrid filter. Next week DCS will be bringing Rossini for listening, so the quest for Best World Class DAC goes on. ...
 

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