Aqua Formula - settings new levels of R2R sonics and price performance
- Thread starter EuroDriver
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Before the guy came to your place with the SGM and Formula to do that demo, he passed at my place. This way we have been able to do a side-by-side comparison btw the SGM and the 432EVO Aeon server upgrade prototype. The conclusion of the session was that both players were extremely similar in performance. But they are not equal in features and price:
The new 432EVO will be launched in Munich and cost a four-figure number. It has features including a TEAC-drive for CD ripping, 2TB of storage (option for more), upsampling (though not (yet) the DXD-thing), Roon-compatibility, etc.
It might we worthwhile to wait for that unit to be released if you are put off by the SGMs price tag.
Mike, so after all the exclamations by you and others that streaming, dsd native, dxd native, 16/44 streaming upscaled to dxd and 256/512 dsd, the amazing benefits brought to the party by HQP, and seamless integration of all this by SGM...and this is now nearly matched by Plain Jane 16/44 CDs played the old fashioned way ie transport and dac
I'm amazed
At this rate I'll wait for a whole retro movement to start where we'll return in droves to playing CDs, revisit 1980s power dressing, and rewatch Wall Street on VHS
I'm amazed
At this rate I'll wait for a whole retro movement to start where we'll return in droves to playing CDs, revisit 1980s power dressing, and rewatch Wall Street on VHS
Hi Mike
Very interesting results, great to hear that the La Diva does a great job when sitting on active ant-vibration control.
The big news for us on the SGM team is the recent release of HQ Player version 3.16. There is a new Polysinc XTR filter which is 6 times more computationally intensive than the Polysinc Short MP and several times more intensive than Closed Form. This new filter family elevates the playback SQ of both PCM and DSD. We are still testing settings and optimizations, but clearly this new filter family is a significant step up. We will be deploying 3.16 in the near future.
The SQ advancement race does not stop !
Yes Edward, I've heard recent upgrades at Blue58's and as you know, am a massive fan
But Mike is intimating that CDs played the old fashioned way are only just beaten by SGM relaying dxd w HQP, w SGM in current iteration already being leading edge
I find this quite the revelation
But Mike is intimating that CDs played the old fashioned way are only just beaten by SGM relaying dxd w HQP, w SGM in current iteration already being leading edge
I find this quite the revelation
I have no experience with SGM, but in direct comparison my old Metronome Calyspo spinning CDs sounded much better than any server feeding a Devialet. So much that the person indenting to buy the Devialet didn't go that way because he could not consider the Metronome ...
We also tried the Berkeley USB/AES-EBU converter feeding the Devialet, but easily found that the Calypso sounded better.
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There was a recent movie called 99 homes, it is similar to wall street but in real estate land, and it's more real life. Excellent watch
well, a couple things.
--I only listened for a short time to one disc and one file this morning, and I've been watching basketball since. lots more work to do......
--and it's a question whether I really want to deal with spinning discs. there is a reason the transport has sat there for 2 weeks while I was not in the mood. we will see how it fits my listening culture. now that it's sounding better that might make a difference with this issue.
so assigning retro movement from my 1st impressions is a bit premature.
OTOH the Aqua Transport on the Herzan does sound very good, and it synergizes well with the Formula dac. and I'm certainly happy with what I've heard.
and then there is the possibility of placing the SGM on a Herzan too.
I am not going to abandon spinning CDs anytime soon either. I have other things to worry about when it comes to sound quality from my system.
I think the whole computer audio thing is way overrated (one reviewer at Audiobeat, Roy Gregory, coined the appropriate term "file fundamentalism" for the attitude to view computer audio as superior in absolutist terms). Yes, theoretically computer audio produces less jitter, but on the other hand it suffers from big noise problems, RF or otherwise. Only a very expensive server will tackle that problem adequately.
Yes Ked
But Wall Street remains the ultimate 80s thrill if we're all going back to CDs
Or maybe 48 Hours or Basic Instinct
Certainly beats Fifty Shades Of Grey alongside top streaming in the 2010s
Seriously, if Mike really feels an Old School setup of cd transport and dac, playing 16/44 rbcd w no upscaling is just short of bleeding edge streamer/dxd upscaling or native/HQP, then what is the point of having moved away from CDs in the first place?
At Munich last yr I spent loads of time listening to the Ypsilon transport and non upsampling dac, and it in many ways was not embarrassed by the $40k Mark Dohemann tt alongside it, and the Origine v2 one box cdp was spectacularly good too, and neither made me feel I was missing out in any way
Otoh, continued exposure to Blue58's SGM on 512dsd/HQP is an ongoing stellar experience
And now we have the release of uber uber engineered disc transports from JMF and Wadax which proponents on AE forums claim obviate any need for streaming or upscaling
But Wall Street remains the ultimate 80s thrill if we're all going back to CDs
Or maybe 48 Hours or Basic Instinct
Certainly beats Fifty Shades Of Grey alongside top streaming in the 2010s
Seriously, if Mike really feels an Old School setup of cd transport and dac, playing 16/44 rbcd w no upscaling is just short of bleeding edge streamer/dxd upscaling or native/HQP, then what is the point of having moved away from CDs in the first place?
At Munich last yr I spent loads of time listening to the Ypsilon transport and non upsampling dac, and it in many ways was not embarrassed by the $40k Mark Dohemann tt alongside it, and the Origine v2 one box cdp was spectacularly good too, and neither made me feel I was missing out in any way
Otoh, continued exposure to Blue58's SGM on 512dsd/HQP is an ongoing stellar experience
And now we have the release of uber uber engineered disc transports from JMF and Wadax which proponents on AE forums claim obviate any need for streaming or upscaling
Wadax has a streamer costing 20k.
The purpose of moving away from CDs is streaming all music at your fingertips. If I am going to get up to change, it will be for vinyl. Fyi in Italy both Gian's friend and the dealer preferred the metronome streamer to their CD player due to lower noise floor. I was indifferent. The one we compared was not their top CD player but the next one, and I do know two dealers who prefer their streamers to the top one.
The purpose of moving away from CDs is streaming all music at your fingertips. If I am going to get up to change, it will be for vinyl. Fyi in Italy both Gian's friend and the dealer preferred the metronome streamer to their CD player due to lower noise floor. I was indifferent. The one we compared was not their top CD player but the next one, and I do know two dealers who prefer their streamers to the top one.
Ked, of course I get the "music collection at yr fingertips" concept
But top class streaming is also predicated on a definitive sq upstick over hard disc format
We've been told for over a decade now that getting rid of the transport by definition improves sound quality more by far than any improved cd transport choice
Then in the last 5 years the promise of impvts from dsd has borne fruit
And now in the last 12 months HQP is taking things on even more
If it really is true that uber transports from Aqua, Wadax and JMF in concert w appropriately high quality non upsampling dacs really produce a result that is close to, or as good as, bleeding edge streaming, I find this very enlightening
I contend that many years ago, had the community known that traditional transports and dacs would match the best of streaming, the whole audiophile market moving away from CDs would not have happened anywhere near as radically
I know in effect this is a mute point since the market has been driven by 15-25 year olds and I Tunes/MP3s
But I suspect many more in our hobby may well have hung on to their CDs
Maybe only Lloyd LL21, Al M, Microstrip and I are going to keep our cd collections LOL, esp in light of hearing that cd transports are getting better than ever
I really felt the Ypsilon cd transport and dac was the best source component at Munich
But top class streaming is also predicated on a definitive sq upstick over hard disc format
We've been told for over a decade now that getting rid of the transport by definition improves sound quality more by far than any improved cd transport choice
Then in the last 5 years the promise of impvts from dsd has borne fruit
And now in the last 12 months HQP is taking things on even more
If it really is true that uber transports from Aqua, Wadax and JMF in concert w appropriately high quality non upsampling dacs really produce a result that is close to, or as good as, bleeding edge streaming, I find this very enlightening
I contend that many years ago, had the community known that traditional transports and dacs would match the best of streaming, the whole audiophile market moving away from CDs would not have happened anywhere near as radically
I know in effect this is a mute point since the market has been driven by 15-25 year olds and I Tunes/MP3s
But I suspect many more in our hobby may well have hung on to their CDs
Maybe only Lloyd LL21, Al M, Microstrip and I are going to keep our cd collections LOL, esp in light of hearing that cd transports are getting better than ever
I really felt the Ypsilon cd transport and dac was the best source component at Munich
Steve Williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I guess I'm really confused now. If there is little or no difference b/n the SGM-->Formula and the player plus DAC why spend the extra money??
let's ignore my investigation of the Formula, La Diva transport and SGM for a moment, as there is no conclusion yet.
but allow us to observe the feedback from dCs Vivaldi transport and CH Precision transports, both $30k+ units which are preferred to files played by those 'uber' systems by many. those both dwarf the SGM-Formula investment......yet are not held up as evidence of the superiority of spinning discs. they are simply data points.
so don't be confused by my first blush feedback.........and allow this to play out.
Hi Flyer,
Would you tell us more about the 432EVO server?
If it's close to SGMS in performance, many of us will have interest.
Thanks!
The Hong Kong dealer of Aqua Audio also carries the Totaldac, Metrum and Rockna.
Many customers of his and I myself went to compare the Formula vs his other dac.
IMHO the Formula is at least on par with Totaldac Six and surpasses all other dac there.
The former excels in dynamics, resolution and the bass quality whereas the latter in mid/treble and has higher musicality.
However, Totaldac Twelve is still my favourite and is in another league, because of its incomparable realness.
Well, regardless of DAC choices, I'm a believer in "computer audio". If you're going to spin a disc, make it a 12" black one. I'm actually selling my entire CD collection, all 9000+ CDs, as I don't honestly believe I can get better performance out of the physical discs as I can get now with assorted streaming devices, so it doesn't make sense for me to keep the CDs around.
The problem is that a streamer is as much a transport as a CD transport is. With the drawback that a streamer is generally using an inferior interface, more often than not, USB, while dedicated CD transports use a dedicated, optimized interface, like in the case of MSB and Aqua (I2S) or dCS (Dual AES/EBU).
That's why, IMHO, DACs with built-in streamers are the way to go, as that avoids the use of an external interface completely, relying only on the internal bus of the DACs.
The problem is that a streamer is as much a transport as a CD transport is. With the drawback that a streamer is generally using an inferior interface, more often than not, USB, while dedicated CD transports use a dedicated, optimized interface, like in the case of MSB and Aqua (I2S) or dCS (Dual AES/EBU).
That's why, IMHO, DACs with built-in streamers are the way to go, as that avoids the use of an external interface completely, relying only on the internal bus of the DACs.
If anything I have heard streamers are getting better than ever. The main new CD player is Neodio Origine.
As for the Ypsilon, I can't see how anyone could have reached that conclusion based on the Munich show, especially for someone who was not carrying any audition recordings.
3 of us compared the Ypsilon PST Mk1 to the AR Ref 10 a few days ago, another member had an in-house audition of Ypsilon, I have compared the Aelius to Luxman M800 bridged, but unlike you I will hold till I isolate the dac/CD player qualities.
Ked, we all come to our conclusions in our own ways
I thought the Ypsilon cd replay was truly excellent
I don't feel the need to trial and re trial gear to draw a conclusion, it was great as it was to my ears, and to those around me when I garnered views there and then
I'm not buying it
My point here is that audiophile seal of approval of streaming can't JUST be about ease of use, it has to be about ultimate sq as well
And after being told for a decade solid that streaming by definition beats a transport, well...
I thought the Ypsilon cd replay was truly excellent
I don't feel the need to trial and re trial gear to draw a conclusion, it was great as it was to my ears, and to those around me when I garnered views there and then
I'm not buying it
My point here is that audiophile seal of approval of streaming can't JUST be about ease of use, it has to be about ultimate sq as well
And after being told for a decade solid that streaming by definition beats a transport, well...
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