Apogee Full range

andromedaaudio · Mar 18, 2017

Nice job / speakers , and nice amps , im a cat fanboy too .
Stable into 1 ohms , if they achieve that, it would be exeptional for a tube amp , the cat is the first amp i ve owned which triggers the cirtcuitbreaker at start up , the amount of current it swallows up to fill those powerbanks /caps is huge compared to all other amps i ve owned , Krell evo 400 mono , graaf GM 200 , boulder .
I personally would think boulder could have a good go at those ribbons , better control /basscontroll then the krells with 100 watts less , but off course SS

gilles13 · Mar 18, 2017

I listened to them in Paris demonstrated by Absolut Sound from Great Britain with the best gear at that time. Every people were mesmerised by the sound. A listening experience that changed my view on sound reproduction.

richard · Mar 18, 2017

LL21 said:
Fantastic, Richard. Legendary equipment. Look forward to reading about it when all is set up. How soon?

Rich says he knows how to make the interfaces, but he needs to source the best possible components, so I don't know how long it is going to take. I will update as things progress, as you know most people think you're crazy if you like stuff like this, I appreciate you guys' interest.

richard · Mar 18, 2017

andromedaaudio said:
Nice job / speakers , and nice amps , im a cat fanboy too .
Stable into 1 ohms , if they achieve that, it would be exeptional for a tube amp , the cat is the first amp i ve owned which triggers the cirtcuitbreaker at start up , the amount of current it swallows up to fill those powerbanks /caps is huge compared to all other amps i ve owned , Krell evo 400 mono , graaf GM 200 , boulder .
I personally would think boulder could have a good go at those ribbons , better control /basscontroll then the krells with 100 watts less , but off course SS

The CATs were rock-stable driving 1-ohm Scintillas before the Black Path cap / power tranformer upgrade, I'm hoping for great things with the Fullranges.

bonzo75 · Mar 18, 2017

richard said:
I apologize for going so long without a post about my Fullranges, but the last thing I want to do is hurry the guy working on my speakers. I just spoke with Rich Murry, the speakers themselves are completed. The following pictures are from his house, where he is listening to them now. The tweeter / midrange units have new walnut cabinetry. View attachment 31543 View attachment 31544

Someone earlier asked how I was going to drive them with one amp each. Spoke with Rich Murry about that today, he confirmed that they were never sold except in bi-amp configuration, in fact the tweeter ribbon by itself is 0.2 ohms. However, he is building an interface so they can each be driven with one amp. He said the total load should be about as bad as 1-ohm Scintillas, but no worse. I spoke with Ken Stevens at CAT this week, my Statement monoblocks Black Path upgrade is completed, they should get here before the Fullranges do. My impression from talking with Ken over the years is that he will take it as a personal affront if the Statements do anything except drive the Fullranges splendidly, I told him I'd let him know.

Richard

Awesome. I look forward to visiting you and theKong over next year, listen to one with the CAT and one the biamped Pass x600s. It will be interesting to see the two approaches.

richard · Mar 18, 2017

bonzo75 said:
Awesome. I look forward to visiting you and theKong over next year, listen to one with the CAT and one the biamped Pass x600s. It will be interesting to see the two approaches.

That would be a comparison in the stratosphere of audio, I look forward to it!

Zero000 · Mar 31, 2017

Here's hoping Rich's crossovers suit your ears. It is the single most difficult thing to get right with an Apogee IMHO.

It is typical to need some tweaking to an Apogee crossover, so if the balance doesn't seem quite right to you at first, live with it for a few months as the nature of the sound will change a bit. If still not happy, don't be afraid to get the xover's worked on.

Don't let me make you worry, and if you feel they are right then don't hesitate to leave them as they are!!!

The speaker itself should be killer.

spiritofmusic · Mar 31, 2017

After a long wait to finally hear Apogees, got a chance to hear Rich Murray-restored Divas in a v high end and optimised room set up
There must have been a cool half million invested in bespoke space, battery pwr supply, top of the range Kondo, Spectral, Kuzma, CEC, etc
It was made apparent at the start both Rich and the client were happy with x'overs as set up, and rest of fine tuning
At the end of the demo I walked away scratching my head as to how anyone could have been happy w the sound
Then one of the guests contacts me to say x'overs were many dB out, and continuous dialling in needed
I continue to be perplexed by what I heard
No doubt, it was a major downer as an introduction to Apogee experience

bonzo75 · Mar 31, 2017

Was the DB out, in terms of bass or treble being out of sync? There are other variables there, such as driving spectral with kondo, using kondo cabling on spectral, and using an entire wall of battery supply for a power hungry system - not sure that's been tried before

spiritofmusic · Mar 31, 2017

The whole concept seemed wrong, a bit like the WE15 horn demo I went to recently
Apparently the treble was something like 5dB out
I really don't know what this all means
So w the two stellar spkrs I've been advised to check out, which sounded resolutely wrong, has meant that I wasted two days of my life and £00s in lost gas

bonzo75 · Mar 31, 2017

spiritofmusic said:
The whole concept seemed wrong, a bit like the WE15 horn demo I went to recently
Apparently the treble was something like 5dB out
I really don't know what this all means
So w the two stellar spkrs I've been advised to check out, which sounded resolutely wrong, has meant that I wasted two days of my life and £00s in lost gas

You went out to check Coco's WE 16a. He DIYed them with line magnetic drivers. You were never advised to go to his 6x6 room where he is enjoying his DIY hobby, but to Leipzig where the WE, GIP, distro has the 16a with GIP drivers.

And no, I haven't heard these divas so never advised that.

spiritofmusic · Mar 31, 2017

I don't know why you feel my comments are about you Ked
Advice to go and see the Divas and WEs was from Jon the UK Apogee restorer and a renowned horns designer
After the Animas visit I don't think I've ever followed yr advice again to travel to hear gear

bonzo75 · Mar 31, 2017

spiritofmusic said:
I don't know why you feel my comments are about you Ked
Advice to go and see the Divas and WEs was from Jon the UK Apogee restorer and a renowned horns designer
After the Animas visit I don't think I've ever followed yr advice again to travel to hear gear

Well you did change your previous room in a bigly way

Anyway going by your experience, irrespective of whether you follow mine or not well it does not work

853guy · Mar 31, 2017

bonzo75 said:
spiritofmusic said:

I don't know why you feel my comments are about you Ked
Advice to go and see the Divas and WEs was from Jon the UK Apogee restorer and a renowned horns designer
After the Animas visit I don't think I've ever followed yr advice again to travel to hear gear

Click to expand...

Well you did change your previous room in a bigly way

Anyway going by your experience, irrespective of whether you follow mine or not well it does not work

Hello Spirit and Bonzo,

My first ever taste of WE was in a room the size of a bathroom stuffed with Tannoys, Altecs, JBLs, vintage Marantz and boxes filled with what looked like the internals of the robot from Lost In Space (maybe they were). It was flawed in every conceivable way but provided a glimpse of heaven, albeit a heaven with a frequency response of the Himalayas.

It was only later that I discovered there's Western Electric, and there's Western Electric. They're probably the least plug-and-play creatures in the hi-fi universe, and it's very very easy to hear bad WE (or something masquerading as such). Personally, I'd hazard a guess Munich is really one of the few places you can hear it done right, or go to the temple itself at Silbatone in South Korea.

By the way, are you two getting married or divorced? I still can't tell.

Love, hugs, etc,

853guy

bonzo75 · Mar 31, 2017

853guy said:
Hello Spirit and Bonzo,

My first ever taste of WE was in a room the size of a bathroom stuffed with Tannoys, Altecs, JBLs, vintage Marantz and boxes filled with what looked like the internals of the robot from Lost In Space (maybe they were). It was flawed in every conceivable way but provided a glimpse of heaven, albeit a heaven with a frequency response of the Himalayas.

It was only later that I discovered there's Western Electric, and there's Western Electric. They're probably the least plug-and-play creatures in the hi-fi universe, and it's very very easy to hear bad WE (or something masquerading as such). Personally, I'd hazard a guess Munich is really one of the few places you can hear it done right, or go to the temple itself at Silbatone in South Korea.

By the way, are you two getting married or divorced? I still can't tell.

Love, hugs, etc,

853guy

He just feels scorned I turned him down.

yes the guy I was referring to is a Silbatone distributor and you will often find him in the WE room at Munich.

853guy · Mar 31, 2017

bonzo75 said:
He just feels scorned I turned him down.

yes the guy I was referring to is a Silbatone distributor and you will often find him in the WE room at Munich.

Do you mean Joe Roberts? Yet to meet him in person but had some incredibly valuable exchanges with him online. In the English-speaking world I've never "met" anyone who's knowledge of WE is the equal of his loathing of most things hi-fi. JC Morrison, possibly.

And as seems pertinent to the topic of this thread, from my limited experience, I'd say Apogee's come second only to WE for mismatched and woefully problematic setups in which the whole is often (a lot) less than the sum-of-the-parts. Judging any WE or Apogee setup on first acquaintance is tempting to do, but like drinking vodka neat and attempting road cycling, they're best evaluated over slow, consistent attempts.

Relationship counselling. That, or attorneys.

Yours as always,

853guy

bonzo75 · Mar 31, 2017

853guy said:
Do you mean Joe Roberts? Yet to meet him in person but had some incredibly valuable exchanges with him online. In the English-speaking world I've never "met" anyone who's knowledge of WE is the equal of his loathing of most things hi-fi. JC Morrison, possibly.

And as seems pertinent to the topic of this thread, from my limited experience, I'd say Apogee's come second only to WE for mismatched and woefully problematic setups in which the whole is often (a lot) less than the sum-of-the-parts. Judging any WE or Apogee setup on first acquaintance is tempting to do, but like drinking vodka neat and attempting road cycling, they're best evaluated over slow, consistent attempts.

Relationship counselling. That, or attorneys.

Yours as always,

853guy

No though I have had chats with Joe Roberts at Munich. Joe is not a techy, the guy I am referring to is a techy.

You are bang on about the mismatched and woefully problematic set ups, something that Marc who is used to standard average gear set up by a dealer will never appreciate. I forget the number of times I have stressed on him to listen to certain apogee set ups, but he will purposefully listen to something else to make noise around it.

853guy · Mar 31, 2017

bonzo75 said:
No though I have had chats with Joe Roberts at Munich. Joe is not a techy, the guy I am referring to is a techy.

You are bang on about the mismatched and woefully problematic set ups, something that Marc who is used to standard average gear set up by a dealer will never appreciate. I forget the number of times I have stressed on him to listen to certain apogee set ups, but he will purposefully listen to something else to make noise around it.

Still sounds like true love to me.

spiritofmusic · Mar 31, 2017

853, I'm sure life spent on the road w Ked would be an adventure, but tbh he really is TOO good looking, and TOO charming for it to last
I'm a kinda "stay at home" girl but he keeps wanting to "play away" w all those fascinating trips to other guys
I really can only guess what he's getting up to, but dare not say

Can I please put the record straight?
I'm happy to travel a bit to demos that sound like they might be interesting
I've heard WE in Munich once, and now at this guy's house
Both times were left wanting
Unlike Ked I have no compulsion to go to further efforts to hear WE
It's not on my bucket list
Just like going to a fetish club, or into space, I'm not that bothered
Yes, I could be missing out on something, but if a couple of exposures to WE leave me totally cold, well so be it
Similarly Apogee
I missed my chance w User211 having to bow out of two invites
Couldn't be helped as the sale of my apartment was reaching the business end
My call
I then await the UK restorer to invite me to hear any pr he's making up, and 15 months I'm still waiting
And still waiting for Henk's invite
And now a potentially stellar setup I do get the chance to hear leaves me perplexed
Again, I'm not in the market, they're not on my bucket list
Do you think I would have gone down the SETs route, air bearing tonearm route, Zu full range/high efficiency route, if it took me months to get demos of each of these, and the demos each time were flawed?
I don't think so
Plenty of noise on these forums, I don't think my contrary views even register w the aficionados of WE and Apogee

spiritofmusic · Mar 31, 2017

853, if it's love, then the human race truly is f****d

Apogee Full range

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