Nat Audio - giant killers?

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
22,374
13,414
2,710
London
Any feedback on their Magma flagship mono , anybody hear them yet ? That's one wicked bottle !!!

The transmitters were rated 1, and the magma are better than them and the magma SE much better, from what I have heard.
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,598
5,403
1,278
E. England
Bonzo, and everyone, after my move from Hovland to Audion, and now to Nat Audio, I am totally sold on the SET sound, and no way am I going back to SS. Unfortunately the Animas are only demoed here in the UK w/SS amps (Modwright), and so I might have a different reaction to them if I heard them powered by bottles.
But maybe not. The Cessaro Liszt horns demo I heard previously was via SS Bakoon amps (w/class A/B amps actively driving the basshorns), and I really liked this sound (I venture would be even better w/SETs).
I don't esp want this thread to divert into Anima territory totally, but on the basis of my experience, I just don't "get" the Animas. I found the majority of musical energy was being emitted by the tweeter horn, a lot less than out of the big mids horn. The exact opposite was the case w/the Liszts. This led IMHO to a tipped up, overly hot sound, that even though was fantastic on things like brass impact and hard percussion like timbales, had no seductive warmth and texture for voices etc. The Liszts OTOH melted my heart, but the Animas kept me a little coiled up.
And to add more negatives, I really felt the bass didn't energise the room at all well, leading me to "look" for bass. Now admittedly, the Liszt bass was the opposite, a tad too slow rel to the rest of the horn presentation, and prone to nodes in Keith's room that I heard them in, but at least it was there in spades, and could possibly be perfected w/room correction.
So, just WHAT am I missing in my REALLY disappointed reaction to the Animas? You fans of them are truly gaga in admiration.
BUT...I will give them one last go, maybe at Paris demo w/Aries tube amps. Or I'll hike up the 150 miles to the UK dealer with my Nat amps and see if I can be convinced. Or just get that home demo by hook or by crook.
 

the sound of Tao

Well-Known Member
Jul 18, 2014
3,615
4,833
940
Speakers are such personal choices spirit, for me its about coherency and balance, seamless, effortless dynamics and scale with linearity from bottom to top. But mostly because when those qualities are all in place it's easier to forget the mechanical process of the individual drivers and just get caught up in the music.

I'm not sure how well set up the Animas were that you heard but in the end since speakers are such a personal thing I'd just follow your instincts... if the animas are not for you then that is just what it is and I wouldn't be at all troubled by it.

I spose I admire many speakers but most leave me with some kind of 'what if' reservation that keeps me at some point apart from the experience of the music. The only speakers that have given me an unquestioning connection with the the music have been experiences with the Maggie 20.7s, the Tune Animas and the Kaiser Kawero Classics.
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
22,374
13,414
2,710
London
Went to spirit's place yesterday. I haven't ABed with his Audion so can only say from memory about the change in sound. His soundstage now seems larger, and is definitely faster and can slam more. Gnomus from Mussorgsky's Pictures played with the Audion was audibly slower. The Audions had a very liquid midrange, NATs more neutral. NATs are not euphonic, more real. More bass.

Note: Please note when I comment on his system, I am a fan of NATs, and I think his Eera CDP is very good, I am not a fan of his Zus and his room.
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,598
5,403
1,278
E. England
Thanx Bonzo. As long as my sound evolution is more involving as I continue, I'm happy. Generally agree w/yr views. We do differ on taste in spkrs, I guess that's why there are many ways to Nirvana.
I am looking to address poss room acoustics issues, and am intrigued as to the results of a £1k GIK package of bass traps and reflection point absorbers. If GIK really addresses shortfalls w/no compromise on the sound I've worked hard/got lucky to achieve, I'll be one happy bunny. Then I'll go onto a progressive Mooking of my components.
The designer of the Beta tester interconnects I'm helping him with was over today, and he was really happy w/how they were sounding, and the overall sound of the system. I guess it helps that I have pretty much a full loom of his cables. He was enthusiastic about the synergy btw the Nats, Zus and his stuff. I'll take this as further pointer I'm making good choices.
What is fascinating is that my system is at a level that small changes like spkr toe-in/vtf variations are immediately noticeable, good or bad, but this level of analysis not at the expense of immersion and involvement. I really believe I'm getting an elusive balance of neutrality and warmth. And that makes me a very happy listener. Near-on two decades of experimentation/upgrades are really coming together.
 

Audiophile Bill

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2015
4,293
4,093
675
Thanx Bonzo. As long as my sound evolution is more involving as I continue, I'm happy. Generally agree w/yr views. We do differ on taste in spkrs, I guess that's why there are many ways to Nirvana.
I am looking to address poss room acoustics issues, and am intrigued as to the results of a £1k GIK package of bass traps and reflection point absorbers. If GIK really addresses shortfalls w/no compromise on the sound I've worked hard/got lucky to achieve, I'll be one happy bunny. Then I'll go onto a progressive Mooking of my components.
The designer of the Beta tester interconnects I'm helping him with was over today, and he was really happy w/how they were sounding, and the overall sound of the system. I guess it helps that I have pretty much a full loom of his cables. He was enthusiastic about the synergy btw the Nats, Zus and his stuff. I'll take this as further pointer I'm making good choices.
What is fascinating is that my system is at a level that small changes like spkr toe-in/vtf variations are immediately noticeable, good or bad, but this level of analysis not at the expense of immersion and involvement. I really believe I'm getting an elusive balance of neutrality and warmth. And that makes me a very happy listener. Near-on two decades of experimentation/upgrades are really coming together.

Hi Spirit,

I use the GIK panels extensively and they helped my room a lot both in terms of controlling the bass and also defining the soundstage and adding resolution. I have also mooked the room :)

I did placement both scientifically but also by ear and pragmatically. I think you could say my room is too damped for some people's taste but I would trade that for tight bass and resolution and soundstage.
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
22,374
13,414
2,710
London
Hi Spirit,

I use the GIK panels extensively and they helped my room a lot both in terms of controlling the bass and also defining the soundstage and adding resolution. I have also mooked the room :)

I did placement both scientifically but also by ear and pragmatically. I think you could say my room is too damped for some people's taste but I would trade that for tight bass and resolution and soundstage.

Bill, I was just telling Spirit about your room yesterday. Your room is not damped, your sound is very clean. And that is without any grounding etc, because 1, you might already have a good room, but those panels have really worked.
 

Audiophile Bill

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2015
4,293
4,093
675
Bill, I was just telling Spirit about your room yesterday. Your room is not damped, your sound is very clean. And that is without any grounding etc, because 1, you might already have a good room, but those panels have really worked.

Thanks Bonzo. My room was actually pretty bad - without my panels it really causes me problems. You think I should add grounding? Entreq or something?
 

Barry2013

VIP/Donor
Oct 12, 2013
2,305
487
418
Essex UK
Thanks Bonzo. My room was actually pretty bad - without my panels it really causes me problems. You think I should add grounding? Entreq or something?

Welcome to WBF Bill.
It's a great site and I have benefitted enormously from it as I am sure you will.
As you can see from the Entreq grounding thread I am a great fan of Entreq grounding. It has significantly improved my system and many others.
Not sure where you are but Fraser Robertson at Kog Audio, who is the UK distributor for both Entreq and Stillpoints is a great guy to deal with, and it is no accident that Stillpoints has become the US/Canadian distributor for Entreq. They really complement each other and I really encourage you to audition the Entreq grounding. There should not be any difficulty in arranging a home demo so you can try it before you buy.
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
22,374
13,414
2,710
London
Thanks Bonzo. My room was actually pretty bad - without my panels it really causes me problems. You think I should add grounding? Entreq or something?

You have asked for trouble with that question.

Let me say this - after visiting numerous systems, the best systems did not have grounding, while the ones with grounding did nothing for me. Does this mean I think grounding doesn't work? No. It just means that what I enjoyed in the system, and what made a difference, had nothing to do with whether the system was grounded or not. The Brighton Datasat system, Marty's system (http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...-400s-arrive-in-New-Jersey&highlight=spectral), the Animas, the Analysis, had no grounding. Your system had no grounding and though it's not the levels I mentioned it's totally enjoyable. You will be much better off spending your money on the other upgrades you are considering - TT, Digital, etc. Separate power line. Since you have a garden right behind you can put up a grounding rod there. Guess that's much cheaper.

Also Datasat and Trinnov will reduce noise much more than grounding. Different noise, but it will mean you hear the music much cleaner. And more right.

I have a long lust list from my visits if I win the lottery. Grounding is not on them. Again, I am not saying it works, but I would rather spend my money on two systems, one with Animas and one with AAs (or rather any two different sounds of one's choice). This grounding stuff costs much more than a used AA.
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,598
5,403
1,278
E. England
Audiophile Bill, I will politely request you go and try Entreq grounding for y'self. If it doesn't work out for you, no sweat, if it does, you will be a whole series of steps closer to Nirvana.
For every system that Bonzo says sounds great w/out grounding, there are an equal number that sound great w/out Shun Mooks. You cannot draw a conclusion from this.
IMHO, if you have a system that "speaks" to you, has the tonality and resolution that you're happy with, Entreq'ing, Mook'ing and GIK'ing can take it to a whole other level.
It seems like Mook'ing and GIK'ing has been done by you, I strongly feel Entreq'ing could v.easily enhance your enjoyment further.
Bonzo's Mpingo discs were interesting but not definitive here. I don't see him cooling on the idea as a result. It works better in some systems, worse in others.
You and others are welcome to PM me if you want to visit and get an idea.
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
22,374
13,414
2,710
London
Audiophile Bill, I will politely request you go and try Entreq grounding for y'self. If it doesn't work out for you, no sweat, if it does, you will be a whole series of steps closer to Nirvana.
For every system that Bonzo says sounds great w/out grounding, there are an equal number that sound great w/out Shun Mooks. You cannot draw a conclusion from this.
IMHO, if you have a system that "speaks" to you, has the tonality and resolution that you're happy with, Entreq'ing, Mook'ing and GIK'ing can take it to a whole other level.
It seems like Mook'ing and GIK'ing has been done by you, I strongly feel Entreq'ing could v.easily enhance your enjoyment further.
Bonzo's Mpingo discs were interesting but not definitive here. I don't see him cooling on the idea as a result. It works better in some systems, worse in others.
You and others are welcome to PM me if you want to visit and get an idea.

That argument is as coherent as an uncorrected music system in a live room. Mpingo discs are lunch money in the used market, cheaper than sushi. The Entreq you have is more expensive than your speakers.

Btw, there is no reason for to cool off the mooks for me. In your room it worked positively in the right spot, though maybe not definitively, magnitude was lower than Bill's definitely. I have never heard it work negatively though. Let me know when you have

Also, note that Bill is more hooked by mook than I
 
Last edited:

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,598
5,403
1,278
E. England
It's fine to call my argument incoherent Bonzo. I'll stick to disagreeing w/you. That's the basis of our relationship. Others can be the judge of what they feel is right and wrong. We're at polar ends of the spectrum. You're on a long search for what works and will only put your flag down at an unspecified later date, when you've heard everything, in every combination, in every part of the globe. I invested in my first complete audio system in 1997, and have refined/ditched/changed direction more times than you've had hot dinners. Each step along the way I've made fewer mistakes, and got closer to what turns me on, and the journey w/Entreq has been 100% positive.
The fact that you can't comprehend I would like my sound specifically via my Zu spkrs is neither here nor there. It's for you to reconcile, not me. The fact is, I'm in Seventh Heaven when I hear music thru them, they "speak" to me, v.much like your Lampi "speaks" to you. And my goal is to max out what makes them so great sounding.
I've listened to panels (Quads, Martin Logan SL3s, Prodigys, Summits, various German brands from the late 90's), horns (Avantgarde Trios w/subs, Cessaro Liszts, Chopins, Tune Audio Animas) and big SOTA box spkrs (Wilson Maxx's, Rockport Antares and Hyperion, Kharma Exquisites, Magico S series), and I wouldn't swap my Zu's for any of them. So I find the sniping over my "incorrect" choice in spending cash further on a Zu-based system e.g. via Entreq on top of Zu being in effect a dead end/blind alley, and thus my arguments over Entreq as "incoherent", a little tedious. I've in effect heard a wide selection of the best of different technologies/brands, and I'm still supporting Zu.
Where you have had your uses is to encourage me to consider GIK for room acoustics, and Shun Mook Diamond Resonators to help w/individual component vibration control, and stick w/Nat. Of this I thank you. But not much else.
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
22,374
13,414
2,710
London
Sorry to have riled you. I really don't see the point of your above post - I didn't snipe at you, if I feel Bill's money is better spent elsewhere, that is up to me. Also, you were the one who compared mpingo discs in the wrong context. What next, saying my money is better spent on a bigger flat than an mpingo disc? I didn't call your choice incorrect either. You read it that way. I don't think it is required, period.
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,598
5,403
1,278
E. England
You haven't riled me Bonzo. I reitterate Entreq CAN help, not WILL help, a system that is already to one's liking. So that one might like it even more. Like Mooks, it enhances what's already working, not try to change it. Btw if you think £200 is cheap, I know some people who might take issue w/you. And that's in the s/h mkt. New, even less "cheap". You can get Entreq s/h too. Btw my spkrs are 4x the cost of my S. Tellus/Apollos.
I'm getting off this diversion since it's a sidetrack to the main discussion. Bill can make his own mind up.
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
22,374
13,414
2,710
London
You haven't riled me Bonzo. I reitterate Entreq CAN help, not WILL help, a system that is already to one's liking. So that one might like it even more. Like Mooks, it enhances what's already working, not try to change it. Btw if you think £200 is cheap, I know some people who might take issue w/you. And that's in the s/h mkt. New, even less "cheap". You can get Entreq s/h too. Btw my spkrs are 4x the cost of my S. Tellus/Apollos.
I'm getting off this diversion since it's a sidetrack to the main discussion. Bill can make his own mind up.

Not really. Entreq is extremely tough, if not impossible, to find in the S/h market. Too new. so you end up comparing Entreq prices from a dealer with multiple hands-changed mooks. And yes, in the context of this hifi forum and Entreq and Mooks, 200 is free money
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,598
5,403
1,278
E. England
Getting back to Nat Audio SQ, there one area it is touted to be great at I had prior to today been struggling a little with, and that is top end projection and air. The sound is so saturated thru the mids-bass that it's easy to get the sense that the highs are not all that extended. But after a couple of weeks of getting to know them, I'm melting more into the sound and the top to bottom balance is a lot more even than at first impression.
This is also undoubtedly being aided by the spooky transparency of beta interconnects I'm trialling.
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,598
5,403
1,278
E. England
I've reread my response to Bonzo, and realise I'm a little guilty of overreaction. Apologies. I will stick by my contention that the best systems can be benefitted by using grounding. But that's the subject of another thread. Ditto Shun Mooks.
I'll await any further comments on Nat Audio, which are not likely to be plentiful bearing in mind they remain well under the radar. They really deserve a to be heard by a wider range of audiophiles.
 

Audiophile Bill

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2015
4,293
4,093
675
I heard the NAT kit with analysis at a show a few years back. Sounded very good with the music I heard. Interested in their phono stage - has anyone done any evaluations on that piece?
 

Maril555

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2014
367
328
370
Spiritofmusic, any updates on your NAT components?
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing