Antenna's - VHF UHF HDTV and FM

kach22i · Nov 24, 2013

Most of the signals come in from +40 miles away, we are in a low part of the city and have an old roof antenna which I now use for my FM tuner.

I can watch what programs I want to on the Internet and rent blu-ray's for free at the public library, so it's just the local morning news I need to get typically.

The cable company has ticked me off for the last time this week. Sure the bill is under $30 a month, but they just lowered the picture quality to an unbelievable low.

It's this new scrambler unit, the last straw. Without notice the screen blank last week, we had to call the cable company to find out what the problem was. I had to find the old cable converter boxes which we haven't used for a year provide them before we could even get the new boxes.

No hi-def channels now and it's all 4:3 ratio with a blurry image which they interrupt every 20 minutes for a 3-4 seconds in the middle of program viewing. The addition of yet another remote is also unwelcome.

Last time few times I tried to use the old roof mounted VHF/UHF/FM antenna with analog and later digital broadcasts, the results were really pathetic, which is why we have been on cable for the last 20 years.

I'm trying to pick out a new roof antenna from the below website.

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/browse/UHF-HDTV-DTV/0000000792

Does anyone have experience with digital antennas? I'm not sure what to look for, haven't done any real research yet.

Can I get analog FM broadcasts out of one?

GaryProtein · Nov 24, 2013

Unfortunately, good FM and TV antennae are getting as hard to find as 21" black and white console TVs.

I'd give a lot for an FM antenna as good as the Fincos and Winegards from 1970.

Matt193 · Nov 25, 2013

Take a look at Denny's Antenna Service. He can get you hooked up with what you need for a great price. I have a midsize Winegard I bought from them that easily pulls in my local channels that are 70+ miles away.

kach22i · Nov 25, 2013

Thank you for the quick input, I feel I'm on the right track already.

I like this made in the USA aspect of the product Matt mentioned via the Denny link.

One I'm looking at now.
http://dennysantennaservice.com/hd_stacker_tv_antenna-html.html

mep · Nov 25, 2013

kach22i said:
Most of the signals come in from +40 miles away, we are in a low part of the city and have an old roof antenna which I now use for my FM tuner.

I can watch what programs I want to on the Internet and rent blu-ray's for free at the public library, so it's just the local morning news I need to get typically.

The cable company has ticked me off for the last time this week. Sure the bill is under $30 a month, but they just lowered the picture quality to an unbelievable low.

It's this new scrambler unit, the last straw. Without notice the screen blank last week, we had to call the cable company to find out what the problem was. I had to find the old cable converter boxes which we haven't used for a year provide them before we could even get the new boxes.

No hi-def channels now and it's all 4:3 ratio with a blurry image which they interrupt every 20 minutes for a 3-4 seconds in the middle of program viewing. The addition of yet another remote is also unwelcome.

Last time few times I tried to use the old roof mounted VHF/UHF/FM antenna with analog and later digital broadcasts, the results were really pathetic, which is why we have been on cable for the last 20 years.

I'm trying to pick out a new roof antenna from the below website.

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/browse/UHF-HDTV-DTV/0000000792

Does anyone have experience with digital antennas? I'm not sure what to look for, haven't done any real research yet.

Can I get analog FM broadcasts out of one?

Really? What did you expect from a cable company for under $30 per month? If you have a decent hi-def TV and you buy a hi-def antenna for your roof, you should be able to pick up some local stations that will have a picture quality that is stunning compared to what you were getting for your under $30 per month.

audioarcher · Nov 25, 2013

I would say at 40+ miles away and in a valley you are not going to get good results. I'm about the same distance away and also in a valley (at least compared to were the transmitters are) and barely pulled in one station sometimes. I had a fairly large antenna mounted on the roof with an amplifier and an electric rotator to aim it at different transmitters. This was many years ago when digital broadcasting was just getting started. They may have improved their signal since then I don't know. I can say that it was a big waste of time and money for me and I eventually threw away all that stuff.

mep · Nov 25, 2013

When tv stations first started transmitting in high def, many were only transmitting at very low power levels. This has since changed and you maybe surprised at what you can pull in now.

audioarcher · Nov 25, 2013

That's good to know. Maybe I will give it a try after my Directv contract is up. Personally I'm fairly happy with Netflix streaming except when it comes to sports. If I had the local stations I could get most the local sports.

I used to work for a cable company and understand the frustration. On their analog signal they used to include all of the hi-def digital local channels. So if you had a TV with a digital tuner you could pick them up even with the basic service. About a year ago in my area they cut off all of their analog signal and required everyone to use their digital converters. I think at first you could still get the local digital channels through your TV's tuner but they wised up and cut them off as well. Now you are forced to get their more expensive service and also pay $10 extra a month for a HD converter if you want any HD channels.

kach22i · Nov 25, 2013

mep said:
When tv stations first started transmitting in high def, many were only transmitting at very low power levels. This has since changed and you maybe surprised at what you can pull in now.

Good to know.

When the digital signals first started I tried using my old antenna but that was a bust, got several channels but only one was really good, and not even all the time.

Matt193 · Nov 25, 2013

kach22i said:
Thank you for the quick input, I feel I'm on the right track already.

I like this made in the USA aspect of the product Matt mentioned via the Denny link.

One I'm looking at now.
http://dennysantennaservice.com/hd_stacker_tv_antenna-html.html

I think you'll do well with that stacker. I probably would have given it a try if he had offered it at the time I got my setup. I have a Winegard HD 7698P antenna with a Winegard AP 8700 preamp, on top of a 40' tower with a rotor. As I said before, I pull in all of my local channels, which are about 70 miles away, at 70- 95% signal strength according to my Panasonic plasma. I very rarely have any signal degradation unless there is a really bad electrical storm or is extremely windy.

Don't forget to get some quality coax, a cable stripper, a compression connector tool, and some compression connectors. They offer a kit that has everything you need minus some dielectric grease if you want to make sure your connectors stay water tight and corrosion free.

amirm · Nov 25, 2013

kach22i said:
Good to know.

When the digital signals first started I tried using my old antenna but that was a bust, got several channels but only one was really good, and not even all the time.

That situation was a bit complicated. All the stations were forced to switch from VHF to UHF during transition period. Once that was over and they could shut off their analog signal, FCC gave them a choice to stay in UHF or go back to their VHF signal. In our area, all the stations I like to watch switched back to VHF. VHF frequencies are lower and hence the antennas much bigger. And regardless, whatever you used to pick up no longer represents what you can pick up now.

Back to your question, go to this site and give it your address and antenna height: http://www.tvfool.com/. It will give you a listing sorted by ability to receive it. But importantly, it shows you their directions. If all the stations you want to receive are bunched in one direction, you are in luck. You can get a "high gain" antenna which means it will give you a stronger signal but also means the antenna is more directional. If you have stations that are not in the same direction but very strong, then you will still pick them up. But if you have two sets of stations that are in different directions, then you will need to have two antennas. That is what I have: one for UHF stations and one for VHF.

Note that high-gain VHF antennas can be become very heavy and long. This means the wind can twist them if not mounted strongly. And of course you need to support the weight also. Importantly, you need to ground the antenna especially if you live in a place that has a lot of lightning. They can also be a pain to line up with the stations since slightest change in angle will make it tune or not. So higher gain is not necessarily the best.

THere are a places where you can go and research true performance of antennas. For now, this is one of the best I could find for VHF and it only cost $50: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003H2G5K2/ref=pe_175190_21431760_A1_cs_sce_dp_1

I see that Amazon no longer has it. See if the manufacturer has replaced it with a new model.

kach22i · Nov 26, 2013

Thanks once again to everyone.

Now my wife is going on about AT&T U-verse, everyone she knows loves it.....blah blah.

I don't want more costs, I want less costs. And with less to watch on TV I'll be doing more 2-channel stereo listening.

Looking at the big picture of several years, I think the antenna is looking better all the time.

amirm · Nov 26, 2013

That's how we live in our vacation house. I have a large hard disk in my DVR and it records a ton of stuff for us to watch. We augment that movies we buy and Amazon Prime free streaming and we are good

.

mdabb · Nov 26, 2013

Check out websites like "TV Fool" (below) for some info and enter your address into "Check Your Address for Free TV". Gives you a better idea of what TV stations you might be able to receive.

http://www.tvfool.com/

This is a newer version of the antenna I installed on the roof of my home about six years ago. It's a multi-directional antenna, and depending on weather conditions, season of the year I have pulled in signals as far as 60 miles away.

http://www.antennasdirect.com/store/DB8e-Ultra-Long-Range-Outdoor-DTV-Antenna.html

I live in the foothills of the Allegheny's and over the air TV signals can be tricky. Some people go with multiple antennas and/or a rotator to acquire a better signal. Really depends on where you live and what you want to accomplish.

kach22i · Dec 4, 2013

My HD Stacker kit came in yesterday, still in boxes - a new adventure.

kach22i · Jan 5, 2014

I finally have the roof antenna up and running.

CBET-DT (Channel 9 - Canada) is 152 miles from my home in Ann Arbor, the farthest station of the 50 I'm picking up (almost double the stations I was getting with Comcast's basic package).

The Ch-9 station only comes in clear early in the morning before the airwaves become all cluttered up. I grew up watching CBC hockey, news, comedy and more so I'm a little disappointed on this one issue.

I recently read on the Internet that someone outside of Ann Arbor located at a high elevation was getting Channel 9 intermittently.

My home is in a very low area, and my HD Stacker antenna came with a pathetically short 5-foot post which barely clears the roof peak. Maybe in the spring I'll get a longer mast pole, but then I assume it will be more prone to wind sway.

However, I'm delighted with the improved image and especially the improved sound which this antenna set up provides.

Coincidentally, the signal meter on my FM tuner crapped out so I cannot example the reception other than saying it appears all of my stations come is as clear as before, if not more so.

Here is what I experienced and learned:

1. The weather proof rubber boot from the antenna to post mounted preamp is too short to be used with the long coaxial termination jacks which come with the HD Stacker kit. The connector busted out the tail of the boot, I had to use many layers of electrical tape to seal it up.

2. The cable ground connector is made of flimsey pot metal and will break if you try and relocate it more than once. ACE Hardware had a much better dual unit which I'm using, JB Weld was not to be trusted to fix the broken original which cracked into two.

3. At first I forgot to disconnect the Comcast scramblers, nothing was going to pass though those pieces of garbage.

4. I had to update my 4-way signal splitter, Radio Shack to rescue.

5. The power strip I first plugged my signal booster to had gone bad, this took me a while to figure out.

6. I strongly suggest you watch a Youtube video on how to make your coaxial terminations with the kit supplied tools before you attempt installation. It takes a while to get the hang of it, the supplied tool seems to have a break in period before it starts working right. I also suggest testing your runs prior to climbing up a ladder an installing them (a Multi-Meter will do). Had I done this first, I would have been more confident in my problem solving routine if they were a known to be good element. Thankfully my connections were not one of the problems, but I also know I could do them better now, and may do so in the spring if installing a new longer mast pole.

7. Overall, the self-made connections and Denny's supplied cables outperform the free cheap jumper cables supplied by Comcast. Those things are terrible on any signal, I'm clearing my house of them, giving them all back to Comcast along with their worthless scramblers and DTV Converter.

I am a free man!

Matt193 · Jan 5, 2014

Excellent news! Instead of those rubber boots, you may want to pick up a roll of Coax Seal.

kach22i · Jan 5, 2014

Matt193 said:
Excellent news! Instead of those rubber boots, you may want to pick up a roll of Coax Seal.

The only protection is on that one connection, other connections are under overhangs, and I made a plastic flapper for the ground block.

I am very nervous about those connections being unsealed, I might have some Duct-Seal laying around, is that an equal to Coax-Seal?

Like this?
http://coaxseal.com/products/

FYI : I still need a TV digital to analog converter for my old CRT tube TV with built-in VCR in the basement. If anyone has an old one (with remote) they never plan to use again, please send me a PM or e-mail and I'll help you clear that old gear out of your house/garage. I'm giving Comcast all of their stuff back, I want no links of any kind with them.
The government issue (with coupon) HD Access D/A-TV converter (Model DTA1030D) I tried hooking up appears to be failing, otherwise I'd be all set. The other two units we had failed years ago, this one was our the last working one (or so I thought) - made in China, what do you expect?

Matt193 · Jan 5, 2014

If your talking about the foil duct tape, not really. Coax Seal (as pictured) is essentially tar on a roll and you just form it over the connectors. It's kind of a pain to take off if you need to service the connections but it really keeps the moisture out. I have a few unsealed connections on my system and they are still fine after 6+ years so I wouldn't stress over it if you can't do anything about it for awhile. I use it on anything that is difficult to service, like the connections on the top of my tower, to make sure I don't have any issues in the future.

Here is a great tutorial on making a weather tight connection: http://www.naval.com/coax-seal/

kach22i said:
FYI : I still need a TV digital to analog converter for my old CRT tube TV with built-in VCR in the basement. If anyone has an old one (with remote) they never plan to use again, please send me a PM or e-mail and I'll help you clear that old gear out of your house/garage. I'm giving Comcast all of their stuff back, I want no links of any kind with them.
The government issue (with coupon) HD Access D/A-TV converter (Model DTA1030D) I tried hooking up appears to be failing, otherwise I'd be all set. The other two units we had failed years ago, this one was our the last working one (or so I thought) - made in China, what do you expect?

I use a Homeworx PVR/tuner as a second tuner to record OTA signals. It's pretty cheap at $45 but often goes on sale for under $40 at Newegg. It doesn't have the most user friendly interface, but it does a decent job pulling in signals.

kach22i · Jan 16, 2014

Is a higher antenna better or does it wobble more?

Is a higher antenna better or does it wobble more?

I've been enjoying good TV reception since I purchased and installed a HD Stacker last month.

However I'm curious to see if I can get that last bit of reception out of it, perhaps doing a small change in the spring.

The situation is that I live in a very low part of Ann Arbor, Michigan.

The antenna is gable (end peak) mounted using the supplied 5-foot pole, on a two story house with a 10/12 pitch (see attached photos below).

The lower part of the antenna (UH part) doesn't quite clear the peak of the roof, the lowest 6 inches or so are just below the peak line. We installed the rake board brace which runs across the face a little low (6") in retrospect.

Overall I'm getting good reception, the entire 50 channels TV-Fool says I should be getting plus some (more than base cable).

The one channel I would like to get happens to be the farthest, channel 9 out of Canada some 152 miles away. This station does not come in all the time, sometimes perfect, sometimes not at all, most of the time with digital artifacts.

QUESTION: Would replacing the 5-foot post with a 10-foot post gain allow channel 9 to come in more consistently?

I'm hesitant to assume yes, because a taller pole will wobble more and then more stations could come in poorly during windy conditions.

Any suggestions or opinions will be appreciated.

As you can see, my old antenna/post was 3 times higher (I'm guessing for a good reason).

Cheers, George / kach22i

The kit:
http://store03.prostores.com/servle...re/the-222/HD-Stacker-Installation-Kit/Detail

The old antenna: 15 Feet

The new antenna: 5 Feet

FYI: In case you were curious, the old antenna gave me only two channels and very poorly via a 300 OHM line, and no preamp (+ one leg was missing).

PS: Comcast Sucks!

TV-Fool Map:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id=46aeffae5da48f

Antenna's - VHF UHF HDTV and FM

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