What's best in highly sensitive/efficient speakers.

spiritofmusic · Jun 6, 2018

Agree on AG Duos.
Have had multiple visits to a guy who runs an exemplary setup, and the Duos are v hard act to beat in horns if you’re tastes run from acoustic to Americana to rock’n’roll to singer/songwriter to Electronica.

Exlibris · Jun 6, 2018

I did an extensive audition of both AG Trios and Acapellas back around 2005. I haven't heard AGs since that time.

KeithR · Jun 6, 2018

Exlibris: The nice thing about AGs is they are by far the best known horn on the planet and resale will be better if for whatever reason they don't float your boat long term. The NA Avantgarde distributor is in Canada which is also helpful for you.

I came back from the LA show and after hearing JBL and Ocean Way horns, have pretty much decided on a pair of Uno XDs if I ever get a large room again.

Exlibris · Jun 6, 2018

Interesting -- in order to hear them last time I had to go down to the distributor in Atlanta and now the new distributor is here in Toronto.

asiufy · Jun 6, 2018

I second the recommendation for AGs. Do listen to the Uno XDs or the Zero TA XD.

Blue58 · Jun 6, 2018

spiritofmusic said:
Agree on AG Duos.
Have had multiple visits to a guy who runs an exemplary setup, and the Duos are v hard act to beat in horns if you’re tastes run from acoustic to Americana to rock’n’roll to singer/songwriter to Electronica.

Yep! 15 yrs old G1 series with Omega drivers. I still love ‘em

Exlibris · Jun 6, 2018

I see that a lot has changed with AG since I heard those Trios back in the day. I will add the Uno XD, Duo XD, and Duo Mezzo XD to my list of speakers I'd like to audition. Has anyone compared any of these three against one another?

bonzo75 · Jun 6, 2018

I have heard all extensively but on classical, and it will change for amplified. I am not going anywhere near duos etc again - I would any day buy KEF standamounts and cross them over to subwoofers. Trios I really like. There are other horns with better tone but to match or exceed trios bass and dynamics and speed and stage of the trios, you have to really go bespoke - find a small manufacturer locally who can make it for you.

I never liked Tannoys before but recently heard modded Tannoys - these are vintage Tannoy drivers in handmade Tannoy cabinets (as the modder considers the factory cabinets not good enough), and modded crossovers. This is now my plan B if I can't fit in a good big horn. But these are anyway far superior to these small speakers with a box sub which pose as horns. They don't sound better than big horns or panels to me. All imo and ymmv. And yes I don't at all like the factory Tannoys like the canterbury or kingdom prestige royal that I heard.

microstrip · Jun 6, 2018

spiritofmusic said:
Agree on AG Duos.
Have had multiple visits to a guy who runs an exemplary setup, and the Duos are v hard act to beat in horns if you’re tastes run from acoustic to Americana to rock’n’roll to singer/songwriter to Electronica.

Why do you think they are not adequate for classic music?

bonzo75 · Jun 6, 2018

microstrip said:
Why do you think they are not adequate for classic music?

I think he replied to my comment - that for amplified go for duos with the box sub. Imo, AG don't have the flow and tone for classical music that some other horns do. The trios make up for it through fantastic bass, dynamics, speed, staging. Orchestra is excellent. If you compare tone on trios with some other horns like Yamamura, WE, OMA, a couple of German beskpoke ones, zerostargeneral's pnoe, apogees, martin logans, quads, horns universum, anima, they don't match up on tone. Yet, I could listen to trios for orchestral tuttis over those given a certain distance. They do realism differently. The other horns have better tonal colors and inflections and variations, all doing it differently. Some lag the trios in bass, scale, dynamics. Also Audiophile Bill's new Loth Minstrels and fantastic on flow and tone though highly restricted in full range

spiritofmusic · Jun 6, 2018

My bad Francisco.

I’ve heard a reasonable amount of classical on the Duos at Blue58’s, and they are very fine.

spiritofmusic · Jun 6, 2018

AG Duos are just fine on the flow needed for classical music, their tone is not an issue.

KeithR · Jun 6, 2018

bonzo75 said:
I have heard all extensively but on classical, and it will change for amplified. I am not going anywhere near duos etc again - I would any day buy KEF standamounts and cross them over to subwoofers. Trios I really like. There are other horns with better tone but to match or exceed trios bass and dynamics and speed and stage of the trios, you have to really go bespoke - find a small manufacturer locally who can make it for you.

IIRC, you have never heard XD Avantgardes though right? This is a MAJOR upgrade/change on the integration front.

I think the tone for AGs highly depends on amplification - as with YG on the cone front, you definitely want a warm amplifier.

bonzo75 · Jun 6, 2018

KeithR said:
IIRC, you have never heard XD Avantgardes though right? This is a MAJOR upgrade/change on the integration front.

I think the tone for AGs highly depends on amplification - as with YG on the cone front, you definitely want a warm amplifier.

No haven't heard the XD. I have heard the prior ones with warm amps, including airtight and Tron. Actually Blue58's 1w warm amps tone them down quite well.

asiufy · Jun 6, 2018

spiritofmusic said:
AG Duos are just fine on the flow needed for classical music, their tone is not an issue.

Yep, exactly. While I always thought them as my "rock'n'roll" speakers, they did classical really well, and all the traits and benefits of a horn were there in spades, even in a small-ish room.

They are extremely dependent on upstream components, not only amps. Even the otherwise perfectly warm Audiopax amps could be harsh on them, if you didn't get the Timbre Lock settings on it right.

Exlibris · Jun 7, 2018

The AG's 109dB efficiency and high impedance would seem perfect for my 45 amp so I was surprised to see Roy Gregory and the AG company suggesting that SS, rather than SET, was the way to go with these speakers(?)

Blue58 · Jun 7, 2018

Exlibris said:
The AG's 109dB efficiency and high impedance would seem perfect for my 45 amp so I was surprised to see Roy Gregory and the AG company suggesting that SS, rather than SET, was the way to go with these speakers(?)

Hi Exlibris,
I think most AGs are now closer to 112dB wth the Omega drivers and as such they pose no problem to my DIY 45 amps. On saying that, I don’t think I’ve ever heard AGs with SS and maybe higher power would be required if you listen LOUD and in a large room.
As always, the best place to start is with a demo.
Cheers
Blue58

Exlibris · Jun 7, 2018

Hi Blue58,
I was just going by the efficiency numbers on the AG website. I don't listen very loud as I live in a condo (90dB peaks at the listening position). I honestly don't know how big my "room" is because I'm in an open-concept, two-story loft condo with an 8' ceiling that only goes part way across the space where I have my system; above the listening position the ceiling is 17'. I think the reviewer was recommending SS not for maximum SPLs or room size but for other reasons:

http://www.theaudiobeat.com/equipment/avantgarde_trio.htm

bonzo75 · Jun 7, 2018

In a condo you need to check if downward firing woofers can disturb the neighbors below. Booth Anima and universum have a downward firing woofer. I initially had problems with downward firing woofers from my Martin Logan summits. Maybe this is not an issue for you.

Exlibris · Jun 7, 2018

I'd like to stay away from downward firing bass if at all possible. The AGs fit in this regard. I used to own to REL Stadium subs and I got complaints.
A product like this might help but I really don't want to risk being a huge annoyance to my neighbours below.
https://www.auralex.com/product/subdude-ht/

What's best in highly sensitive/efficient speakers.

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