Preference vs. audibility - please keep them separate.

j_j · Sep 29, 2013

Preference is whatever you like. It's your preference. End of discussion. Nobody gets to care about your preference one way or another unless it passes the tip of their nose. Establish your preference in any way you PREFER. Period. Your preference is yours, only yours, and nobody else's. You don't have any more right to complain about theirs than they have to complain about yours, so be done with it.

Audibility is a scientific argument, and it must be resolved scientifically. This means DBT's, be they ABX, self-training, or whatever. There are many methods, all of which are valid for their intended uses.

mep · Sep 29, 2013

Aren't preferences based on audibility to the person with the preference?

Phelonious Ponk · Sep 29, 2013

mep said:
Aren't preferences based on audibility to the person with the preference?

Not always, no.

Tim

microstrip · Sep 29, 2013

j_j said:
Preference is whatever you like. It's your preference. End of discussion. Nobody gets to care about your preference one way or another unless it passes the tip of their nose. Establish your preference in any way you PREFER. Period. Your preference is yours, only yours, and nobody else's. You don't have any more right to complain about theirs than they have to complain about yours, so be done with it.

Audibility is a scientific argument, and it must be resolved scientifically. This means DBT's, be they ABX, self-training, or whatever. There are many methods, all of which are valid for their intended uses.

Sorry but it is not end of discussion - it is just a start. You are addressing individual preference and completely forgetting about collective preference - obtained analyzing statistically the individual preferences. Then preference can be studied scientifically, and is no more only an individual characteristic. IMHO, it is this type of preference we many times implicitly address in this forum - we do not spend our time just debating a random individually owned entity. We express our individual preferences and compare them with other groups preference, surely most of the time using methods that are not scientific.

Concerning the second part of your post, it would be very nice to have someone who could address the "self-training, or whatever". Audiophile culture on audibility is usually limited to a few audio challenges that have been reported in old audio magazines - journals of Psychoacoustics and AES publications are not of free access.

microstrip · Sep 29, 2013

tomelex said:
Micro, why always do you bring this up. Do you read this forum, a certain percentage here have a collectvie preference for vinyl, and a certain percentage here have a collective preference for digital, and a certain percentage here dont care one way or the other what the format is in, they listen to either one. A certain percentage here have a collective preference for tubes, a certain percentage here have a collective preference for solid state, a certain percentage here have a perefence for both tubes and solid state, a collective preference for class a, push pull, class d, old stuff, new stuff, tapes, different cartridges etc blah blah. There is your collective preference. Or are you talking something else again that is lost in the translation?

Tom,
No, it was not lost in translation, but after reading your strange post, I do not hope you will understand ...

NorthStar · Sep 29, 2013

mep said:
Aren't preferences based on audibility to the person with the preference?

Phelonious Ponk said:
Not always, no.

Tim

Very true; for some 'preferences' have more to do with aesthetics than anything else.
And we can go on and on and on ....

Johnny Vinyl · Sep 29, 2013

If you want to keep them separate why are you bringing them up in the same thread?

It's a loaded topic.

MylesBAstor · Sep 29, 2013

Johnny Vinyl said:
If you want to keep them separate why are you bringing them up in the same thread?

It's a loaded topic.

Because this site is populated with people who belong on wreck.high-end.com. Same ABX/DBT BS that went on over there for years. Only it's here and why many sites have had to make their sites DBT free. Which actually I thought this site was declared at the outset IIRC.

What the hell has happened to talking about high-end audio equipment here?????

amirm · Sep 29, 2013

MylesBAstor said:
What the hell has happened to talking about high-end audio equipment here?????

Create a new thread and talk about them!

Johnny Vinyl · Sep 29, 2013

MylesBAstor said:
Because this site is populated with people who belong on wreck.high-end.com. Same ABX/DBT BS that went on over there for years. Only it's here and why many sites have had to make their sites DBT free. Which actually I thought this site was declared at the outset IIRC.

What the hell has happened to talking about high-end audio equipment here?????

And music! Seems like nary a thought is given to that. ...

Ethan Winer · Sep 29, 2013

j_j said:
Preference is whatever you like ... Audibility is a scientific argument, and it must be resolved scientifically.

Agreed fully. Nobody can tell you what you like. But I'll add a second "science" issue in addition to audibility, and that's accuracy. Whether one prefers accuracy or not, this too can be measured and determined for certain.

--Ethan

NorthStar · Sep 29, 2013

MylesBAstor said:
...

What the hell has happened to talking about high-end audio equipment here?????

Go ahead Myles and take the lead on this one subject among many other ones. :b

NorthStar · Sep 29, 2013

amirm said:
Create a new thread and talk about them!

Ah, you beat me to it Amir.

Johnny Vinyl · Sep 29, 2013

amirm said:
Create a new thread and talk about them!

You know how many threads have been started about music Amir? Look it up. No one gives a damn. It's all about tech-specs to the 'nth degree that isn't even audible.

amirm · Sep 29, 2013

Johnny Vinyl said:
You know how many threads have been started about music Amir? Look it up. No one gives a damn. It's all about tech-specs to the 'nth degree that isn't even audible.

It is a natural thing. Go to a photography forum and you find the gear threads far more popular than what pictures people take with them. I am not shameful about it

. I enjoy talking about the gear. It is the hobby within the hobby. That said, I think we have reasonable amount of threads about music. "What's spinning tonight" is one.

I have taken a lot of management/employee training classes. The best lesson I learned in them was this: "when you don't like what the group is doing, think of what you can do different! You can't change other people but can change what you do instantly." Hence my advice to Myles. And same here. Please create a new topic on music right now and don't worry about what is going on in this thread.

BTW, I plan to write a couple of new movie reviews.

MylesBAstor · Sep 29, 2013

amirm said:
Create a new thread and talk about them!

Why Amir? The same DBT/digital people will just crap all over it like has been going on here as of late.

Phelonious Ponk · Sep 29, 2013

MylesBAstor said:
Because this site is populated with people who belong on wreck.high-end.com. Same ABX/DBT BS that went on over there for years. Only it's here and why many sites have had to make their sites DBT free. Which actually I thought this site was declared at the outset IIRC.

What the hell has happened to talking about high-end audio equipment here?????

Yet you always find these threads and knock around in them for pages and pages, right along with the rest of us, Myles. Go to the top of the page, click "new posts." You'll find plenty of gear threads.

Tim

Groucho · Sep 29, 2013

MylesBAstor said:
Why Amir? The same DBT/digital people will just crap all over it like has been going on here as of late.

And again!

amirm · Sep 29, 2013

MylesBAstor said:
Why Amir? The same DBT/digital people will just crap all over it like has been going on here as of late.

Preface your thread with "No DBT talk" and I/mods will make sure it stays that way.

Johnny Vinyl · Sep 29, 2013

amirm said:
It is a natural thing. Go to a photography forum and you find the gear threads far more popular than what pictures people take with them. I am not shameful about it . I enjoy talking about the gear. It is the hobby within the hobby. That said, I think we have reasonable amount of threads about music. "What's spinning tonight" is one.

I have taken a lot of management/employee training classes. The best lesson I learned in them was this: "when you don't like what the group is doing, think of what you can do different! You can't change other people but can change what you do instantly." Hence my advice to Myles. And same here. Please create a new topic on music right now and don't worry about what is going on in this thread.

BTW, I plan to write a couple of new movie reviews.

I've started plenty of threads in the music section, plus given my opinion or a brief review. Lots of visits, but not one comment. One of 20 might invoke some interest. I wonder if most here even know where the Music section is?

I read almost everything on here and have learned a lot, and I'm not knocking the expertise/opinion of many of our fine members, but man......it's a bit much to handle at times.

I look forward to reading your reviews Amir. Hopefully they'll be better received than the reviews in the music section.

Preference vs. audibility - please keep them separate.

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