Yup. The most extreme example I've seen were these monks in Tibet wrapped in cloth being doused with cold water. They chant and the cloth actually begins to steam. I love Discovery Channel.
MMMicroOne vs. KEF LS50
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Yup. The most extreme example I've seen were these monks in Tibet wrapped in cloth being doused with cold water. They chant and the cloth actually begins to steam. I love Discovery Channel.
The sound I heard from the Magico Q series is a very fine metallic scrim that permeates the music. Many listeners will not bothered by it.
No, just because instruments resonate does not mean a speaker must to sound real. There are many ways to skin a cat. I am definitely not
an absolutist.
Yes - some speakers even use damped materials in their boxes. In the particular case of the Magico's the panels are damped by the internal structure - it is why the speakers are filled with fancy structures and different material bars, all screwed at the proper tension.
Andre, a ringing driver sounds like a "fine metallic scrim that permeates the music"? Do you attribute this to the driver material or the ringing caused by inert cabinets?
Very good question. Answer: both. The fact that the Q series cabinet is so inert, it does not absorb any of the driver ringing which would make
it much more benign.
Of course, I want to be clear this is in my opinion. I am sure Alon Wolf and Jon Valin disagree.
I also must say that the Q series has many virtues, among them, uncanny resolution.
But I heard this fundamental characteristic across the Q3, Q5, and Q7 in numerous demos, with a variety of
partnering electronics. It's clearly there.
Very good question. Answer: both. The fact that the Q series cabinet is so inert, it does not absorb any of the driver ringing which would make
it much more benign.
Of course, I want to be clear this is in my opinion. I am sure Alon Wolf and Jon Valin disagree.
I also must say that the Q series has many virtues, among them, uncanny resolution.
But I heard this fundamental characteristic across the Q3, Q5, and Q7 in numerous demos, with a variety of
partnering electronics. It's clearly there.
Andre, a "fine metallic scrim" that permeates the music is what I also hear when I listen to the Focal tweet that Wilson used to use in all their speakers. Perhaps this "distortion" ( which I think is probably what we are listening to) is typical of all metal dome tweeter's. I have not heard a metal dome that doesn't exhibit this issue to some extent or other. I think it becomes far more obvious when AB'ed against a good silk dome or ribbon tweeter. BTW, when I had the pleasure of hearing the Polymer speaker's a few ago, I think the same could be said for them...although the "metallic scrim" was less obvious BUT extended into the mids as well. I wonder if that had anything to do with that speaker's diamond driver's or in this instance to the all metallic cabinet
Andre, a "fine metallic scrim" that permeates the music is what I also hear when I listen to the Focal tweet that Wilson used to use in all their speakers. Perhaps this "distortion" ( which I think is probably what we are listening to) is typical of all metal dome tweeter's. I have not heard a metal dome that doesn't exhibit this issue to some extent or other. I think it becomes far more obvious when AB'ed against a good silk dome or ribbon tweeter. BTW, when I had the pleasure of hearing the Polymer speaker's a few ago, I think the same could be said for them...although the "metallic scrim" was less obvious BUT extended into the mids as well. I wonder if that had anything to do with that speaker's diamond driver's or in this instance to the all metallic cabinet
Yes, many were critical of certain Wilson speakers, especially when driven by lean solid state. I feel that the driver material, whether it be metal, beryllium, diamond, or whatever, is only part
of the equation. It really becomes about implementation after that. I think the "metallic scrim" that I described, if present, can absolutely be heard from the mids on down. Woofers and mid drivers
are being made of very stiff, light, and exotic materials and as I said, the whole equation..the cabinet, crossover, wiring..has to be a perfect marriage.
I also think that speaker companies that are using advanced technologies as their main selling point are appealing to spec lovers. There is no doubt in my mind that speaker
design is part science and part art. Unfortunately, some companies use a little too much of one or the other.
Very good question. Answer: both. The fact that the Q series cabinet is so inert, it does not absorb any of the driver ringing which would make
it much more benign.
Of course, I want to be clear this is in my opinion. I am sure Alon Wolf and Jon Valin disagree.
I also must say that the Q series has many virtues, among them, uncanny resolution.
But I heard this fundamental characteristic across the Q3, Q5, and Q7 in numerous demos, with a variety of
partnering electronics. It's clearly there.
I disagree too. Granted I've only heard 3 Magico models, but there was nothing "metalic", nor a "sheen" on their sound. At all.
I've had silk dome tweeters here that had more "bite", in the negative sense, than the tweeters on the Magicos. I just had a Focal speaker here, with a Be tweeter, and it was not even close to the performance of the Magico tweeter. Bright, yet without proper extension.
alexandre
Very good question. Answer: both. The fact that the Q series cabinet is so inert, it does not absorb any of the driver ringing which would make
it much more benign.
Of course, I want to be clear this is in my opinion. I am sure Alon Wolf and Jon Valin disagree.
I also must say that the Q series has many virtues, among them, uncanny resolution.
But I heard this fundamental characteristic across the Q3, Q5, and Q7 in numerous demos, with a variety of
partnering electronics. It's clearly there.
This is another example illustrating that we all hear differently. "It's clearly there" to your ears. I have heard all three of those Q speakers and never heard what you are describing.
I haven't either but there are people Peter who do hear ringing with certain metal tweeters (mine included even though I can't hear it)
So maybe rather than a blessing in disguise it is more of a curse like the rainbow effect with older DLP projectors
So maybe rather than a blessing in disguise it is more of a curse like the rainbow effect with older DLP projectors
Fair enough. I made it a point to spend a LOT of hours with the Magico Q series, as it was a product line I had heard much about.
I only did so with music that I brought with me that I was intimately familiar with. I refuse to listen to unfamiliar music when evaluating
a high profile product.
Would you deny that ALL material has its own unique sonic virtues? Would it be odd to suggest that those Nano-Tec drivers (Rohacell and Carbon fiber)
have a sonic personality just as paper or ceramic does?
In the end, you are right, it is a matter of taste. But I stand by what I heard.
Steve, I did not hear it on your speakers, which I have also heard in many other settings. There was zero ringing what so ever.
The X-2, it must be said, is a totally different animal than a Q5 or Q7.
I don't question that you hear what you hear. We all hear differently and we have different priorities. I would certainly not deny that all materials have their own unique sonic character, virtues or otherwise. I hope that I did not say something like: In the end, it is a matter of taste. That may often be the case, but here, I was simply talking about what I heard and not questioning what you heard. There is no "taste" involved.
Please do stand by what you heard. I don't question you having heard it. And I guess many others have heard it too.
Now, turning to taste, I do like some speakers' sound more than I do others. Sometimes I attribute that to materials, sometimes I don't really know what it is about a design that makes it sound the way it does to my ears. I don't have the background, experience or knowledge to know that.
I also try to bring familiar source material to auditions. It certainly helps one to understand what he is hearing.
Well said, in the end it is about "Can I live with this speaker, faults and all.." because ALL speakers have faults.
Interestingly, Jon Valin described EVERY Magnepan speaker prior to the 3.7 as having a "thin metallic scrim", which he nailed down to the
sublte sound of brushes on a snare drum. He had praised the speakers for years, overlooking that "flaw", since Maggies do so many things
well.
I have had other people tell me they heard what I heard with the Magicos, but as you point out many do not.
wow, so I thought this was a EA vs KEF thread, but instead has become a Wilson and Magico slam fest. Those who think these tweeters (metal) sound shrill need to examine the source components delivering the music to these speakers. As is the usual case, the supposed authorities have never had these speakers in their own system or stating opinions based on word of mouth or limited experience in an un-optimized show setting. My X-2's deliver the source uncolored in all it's glory. Nothing shrill in my system.
The usual "authorities" also misquote, as usual. No one ever used the world shrill. Simply pointing out a sonic characteristic of a speaker is not a "slam fest".
I stated on no less two dozen occasions on this board that the Magico Q series are truly excellent speakers. A product held up to such high praise is worthy
of being examined for its flaws, regardless of how minor.
For the record, again, we have every right to describe what we hear, no matter how subtle the coloration is. And at that level, it IS subtle.
FWIW Christian there are many people who hear ringing from the inverted titanium dome tweeter and it has nothing to do with the source components. DaveyF is one who hears it. Also many women hear it. I don't.
You can see the peak in the Maxx 3's inverted titanium dome tweeter(blue trace) verses the XLF's dome tweeter (red trace) in these Stereophile measurements taken in MF's listening room.
Here's Martin Colloms measurements of the Magico Q1, which show an on axis peak, but it's at a higher frequency and probably harder to hear.
The KEF LS50's top end (red trace) seems very smooth:
I never seen any measurements for the EA speakers.
Here's Martin Colloms measurements of the Magico Q1, which show an on axis peak, but it's at a higher frequency and probably harder to hear.
The KEF LS50's top end (red trace) seems very smooth:
I never seen any measurements for the EA speakers.
A judicious choice of electronics, cables and room can reduce the "ringing" to a point it is not audible. It is probably what is happening in your system. Some people call it synergy and fine tuning.
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